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About Undertanker

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    Master Sergeant
  1. @Mogri When Nost first launched, I was a day 1 player. He had 6, yes 6 protection warriors that were leveling and inspired to be the main tank of our guild. I wasn't the fastest leveler, and was only level 58 while the other 5 tanks were 60. I still was there for that first MC though and got the first epic since DKP was 0 so roll it out :). The other guys had a couple weeks to pre-raid before me, so I wasn't anything more than a trash mob tank when I started. I was approached by whom at the time were our guild officers/leaders about switching to fury. I refused, and held my ground on what my goals were since months prior to launch day. I grinded out my pre-raid with the guild, while other tanks stopped after they got their gear (some still missing items) and just showed for raids. Another tank demanded MT and all loot first before even raiding to show his effort/attendance/skill/knowledge and dipped to a new guild. I was always active and available for the guild for 5 mans every night getting their loot, making their life easy finding groups and having smooth runs. All the while, building relationships with these people via all nighters chit chatting in Team Speak/Discord while clearing runs. This got me moved up to the 3rd tank spot which ensured invite prio over 3 of our 5 tanks. It didn't get me main tanking all the bosses, though as the first couple weeks the other two were at the helm and that is what the raid was comfortable with. Runs were not as clean as they could be, and at times our MT would go down. Typically I was the first tank to respond, burn CDs, even tanking the boss with the add(s) I had as well. - Being able to shine in oh shit moments with proper cooldown management, and communication goes along way in getting the confidence of 39 others. Also even though I wasn't the first or second tank, I was the most vocal about raid positioning, giving tips to other tanks and classes that were not my own, and communicating areas of improvement in a positive manner (the first 20 times I stated something) to help our team grow as a guild. I continued my nightly 5 man guild runs (I essentially pre-raided about 85 people+ from greens to pre-raid BiS while other tanks were non-existent outside of raid night). I grinded my gold out to get the best Fire Resist set possible, while other tanks were still running stat-less greens. This landed me as the Baron and Rag Main Tank spot as I had the best HP + Fire resist gear, and always had my Lung Cocktail Juice ready to pop for Rag, ensuring I wouldn't go down on Rag which we previously had issues with tanks dropping due to poor itemization. This I feel was the turning point in my tank career in Vanilla. Now closing in on our second month of farming MC, I had proven my availability of 100% raid attendance, shared by 1 other tank whom was still considered #1 and I was moved to #2. We were a DKP guild (not my preference) so it was difficult to create gear separation, so who can your stats pull you away from the competition? Alongside the farming BiS FR gear as mentioned above, was always having proper consumables, and not being cheap. This can be taxing on somebody whom doesn't have a lot of time investment outside of raid days as gold can disappear quick. All those guild 5 man runs helped me here and the relationships I developed helped even more. I'd randomly have herbs, armor scrolls, HP potions or other odd-ball tank consumables mained to me by the same people that I helped every night farm their Baron Dresses/Necks, do BRD jump runs for HoJ and Ironfoe, countless DM West runs for healers, east runs for melee. This is how I went from #3 to #2. All those relationships built with my guild members, made me a fan favorite when I won a DKP bid for loot, because the DPS/Healers knew that gear would be brought right into a 5 man they needed me for later. But I still wasn't the "Main Tank", and was sharing tanking duties based on cooldowns available. If the #1 guy had his stuff on CD, I got to tank. I would still tank plenty of adds, however at this point I would assign myself 2 adds to every other OTs 1 add, freeing up a fury warrior to DPS. AV released on the server and I was the only tank that put in the hours to get my rep grinded out ASAP. This gave me Don-Julio's Band, and a shield with the most shield block value (bigger shield slams). I also obtained after about 22 runs, my own DM East Satry's Bow (only tank that got one at the time), got a Quel Book to drop during one of those runs, and a Tarnished Elven Ring. This finally gave me the gear separation I'd been looking for - Threat Per Second. This newly added +3% hit allowed our DPS to push more, and pull threat less - building a comfort level for the DPS to begin to push the numbers themselves. While the current #1 tank also maintained 100% attendance, it was noticeable TPS difference when I didn't have a mob. This got the officers to want me tanking more of the bosses that were tank and spank, and if we were killing adds first, I was always tanking skull. This pushed me over the top as the un-official MT of the guild. Being called upon when the most threat was needed - I had best itemization for. When hardest hitting boss - I had best itemization for, for when Fire Resist was needed - I had best itemization for. On top of not being cheap with consumables even on trash. Doing my homework on what every add and boss does, helped me communicate this on a per pull basis (annoying after awhile) to other classes and help them clean things up. This communication lead to me being extended an officer spot, as I essentially became one of the raid leaders in which about 3 of us took part in doing. BWL dropped and due to all of which you can read above, and specifically communication and knowing strats/mechanicals and effectively explaining these to the rest of the raid, I maintained my #1 spot and reached my goal set months before the server launching of people a guild's progressive Main Tank. Though, I applaud my fellow tank(s) for not making it easy, as the initial #1 had great attendance and communicated as well. Other mention having a thick shell, that is important. While Molten Core is pretty dummy proof, BWL does have some strict positioning requirements from tanks on specific bosses and there is a learning curve. I would take full responsibility on raid wipes, some of which I had nothing to do with. (I personally got us wiped our first 4 attempts on first drake). Always reflecting on what I could have done to fix whatever mistake took place, even if it wasn't mine to make. I had enough of a report with the majority of the guild as I pre-raided most of them, that hey if it was Under's fault, okay move on. As opposed to it was the new guy, then tensions start to rise and we might lose a long term member, and that can be a domino effect. Being positive after wipes, and going at it again ASAP with little down time is important. It is up to you to set the tempo. Also learn from your mistakes, don't wipe for the same reason, wipe because a different reason So adding in the 100% attendance at this point, which no other tank did, best Fire Resist set, no other tank had, best TPS set, no other tank had, and making myself always available for 5 mans throughout the week, no other tank did - earned me the reward of getting the first bindings for Thunderfury. It was an accumulation of all these things that set me apart, and to the top of the tank roster. Though I was the MT, I didn't mean I had all the fun. I felt as an officer it was important that ALL tanks know positioning, mechanics from the MT view and have their own TPS sets. So we began rotating tanks out for MT duties to solidify our team. Besides, who rolls a protection warrior with the dream of tanking an add and swinging Nightfall 90% of the time, right? Share the fun. Sadly soon after that project shut down. We rolled on K-1, though my spot was set. Again I wasn't the first tank to 60, but I was handed the reigns the second I got there. This time we went Loot Council because our goal was the soon to be released AQ and we were all in blues - was important to get 40 geared vs 90 with 1/3 the gear. We steam rolled AQ40 progression by week 3, and then the other server came back after a bit. Our guild eventually broke up due to lack of new blood. I now find myself in a position I was in way back in 2005, the 4th tank in the list for a really great guild. Being Loot Council, and content farmed, I am playing catch-up when it comes to gear separation (even with Thunderfury we have 3 in guild), and little need for running 5 mans outside of DM tribute buff runs. All I can do is what I always did, have the best resist gear I can get, be available as often as I can be, limit my mistakes (I still make them, just own up to it and LEARN FROM THEM), and do your job. I still get chances to MT bosses here and there depending on Cooldowns and as I build report with this new team, show dedication, and come prepared with the smallest of details (Sapper Charges, Resist Pots, Grenades, Immolation potion) for those very specific uses, it will help me move up. Though it is extremely beneficial to any guild to have an extended roster beyond 40 ready to raid on a night, this allows people to sit to prevent burnout. If you stop recruiting because you have 40 for a raid, you are destined to fail. 50 ready to raid, and people not demanding 100% invite is important for your team. Build a rotation system if people get butt-hurt. TL;DR I know this was SUPER long, but this is my story that is still being written. Started as the 6th tank being pushed to DPS to progression MT through BWL/AQ40, to a 3rd/4th tank on a NA #1 guild. - Be available (outside of raid, not just in it) - Be prepared (best resist gear (not just good enough gear), best consumables, TPS gear, and max mitigation gear - know when to use what. - Communicate (state when swapping tanks, popping a CD (at an appropriate moment) explain bosses/trash to people even though their guild app says the do this stuff, they don't) - Take Ownership (if a wipe happens, take the blame evaluate what you could have done better, if somebody elses fault, explain to them in a collective manner privately what to do, call them out if they repeat) - Set the pace (mana 80% +, pull the trash, boss standing in front of you - go get it) If people are not drinking, mana must not be important. Staring at bosses for 5+ minutes causes more ninja AFK than anything. - Be Aware (Check your buffs OFTEN, got pally / shammy/ lock in range? Mana for raid is good? HP bars filled? Go GO Go. Don't pull when raid isn't ready, but be aware the second they are) You do these things and regardless if you are the first to 60, or the last tank to 60, you'll find your place and you'll reach your goals. Take this to the bank, and I wish you the best of luck on your adventure and making your Main Tanking dreams come true.
  2. You need imp sunder until AQ gear. You need very specific threat per second gear paired with a lot of agility to justify impale spec, and be able to maintain world buffs throughout a raid. Can't get more than 3/5 if reaching both impale and shield slam. Shield Slam does more damage than Mortal Strike 1h. Block Value scales 1:1. Mortal Strike is bad threat per rage, requiring more use of your 15 rage Sunders. Where as I can shield slam + cleave and do more threat, more damage, with less rage. Mortal Strike spec doesn't get imp 1h, limiting incoming rage on white hit, negating any weapon specialization. Take anticipation talents so you can gear +hit % on two addition gear slots (rings). Yet maintain the ability to hit Def cap if ever needed. Imp Taunt allows for you to be able to hold a mob with challenging shout or mocking blow and taunt again before losing it. (If taunt resist). TL;DR Just go with standard tank spec. Pick up a weapon with a proc.
  3. @Zaroua What does Beserker rage have to do with tanking in these low level 5 mans for rage to open a fight with? Do you mean blood rage? Tanking 5 mans, you rarely get to charge into a group or you'll pull unwanted pats or the next set of mobs. Gun pulling, blood rage, battle shout (while still in range of all party members) is how you should open your pull. Also "how will you have enough rage for a start of a pull?" You should practice pooling your rage when you have established aggro on a mob for the next pull. More info in tank guides. The only struggle you will have is stance dance > mocking blow which late 30s imp beserker rage will give you 10 rage to counter this limitation. If impale does not effect autos, that makes enrage vs impale difference even in more favor of enrage but over 27.5% then since you also get more rage per second from Enrage. You quote me then talk about flurry, my leveling guide clearly says to respec at 40 to arms and why. You still have over power and will be doing more damage all the time with it because of Enrage. Also, overpower is not a "Major portion of your dps". Yes casters can dodge, but at a very low percent and shouldn't be banking on a 5 percent dodge trigger for your PVP win. This is more of a rogue killer for the tards that go evasion on you, or Hunters who by muscle memory go monkey when you get in melee range. Just because you are fury spec does not lock you out of battle stance. To your random stuff about people not being able to dps a 5 man, a fresh 60 warrior should remain arms as sweeping strikes does wonders on trash unless you are going full CC on every pull. Informative information has been provided long ago in this thread, with rhyme and reason, and plan ole' fashionable math. No reason to continue to try to turn chicken salad into chicken shit.
  4. In 5 mans can give up toughness by 1 point. most things that hurt with the exception of DM North boss are magic damage. (Scholo boss/ubrs boss/strat live & UD boss) Trash mobs that use magic hurt much more as well.
  5. Yeah I was told I had to wait til the 7th dropped before I could get one for tanking.
  6. Warm body that is there almost all the time will be taken over a better spec that isn't there for the guild much.
  7. OP specifically ask about solo and 5 mans. People jump right into raid discussion and never touch on half of what he/she is asking. I'll provide my feedback with playing with people in BiS BWL gear from both classes/specs, as I love spamming 5 mans as a tank when I don't need things, it's more fun than main city AFK. Boomkin: 5man Can do good burst DPS with a nuke and then moon fire spam on the bosses in a 5 man, won't see much different from a lock or mage due to the shortness of most 5 man fights. Locks won't have many chances for a free shadow bolt, mages can't get ignites going / shatter spec which is OP on trash won't help on the boss. The downside to the boomkin is while clearing trash, you will not have the mana efficiency or AoE damage of either lock or mage. The one AoE you do have, is a lot of unwanted threat due to the added debuff. Innervating yourself doesn't make up for this as the CD is greater than what any fast moving group will accommodate for. If it is a slow group that is drinking after most pulls, you shouldn't notice a difference. Also for the groups that have a squishy tank and CC wanted, you are limited in which instances you can help in. UBRS is where you'll shine the most. They help the tank with AoE threat as long as they keep thorns up, and gives the group MotW which is a plus. The healer and other caster dps also get a crit buff. Serve as a backup heal if healer dies somehow but too low mana for a BRez. Also for fights that might be hard in low gear, you can pre-rejuv/regrowth the tank to make the healers job much easier. Solo Solo wise: They are not very well off, and fall behind a feral as a feral will have no down time if balancing shapeshifting / utilizing 6 second non cast for mana regen between power shift heals/moonfire pulls. T2.5 is the holy grail of Druid solo gear, to allow your versatility to shine without noticeable weakness in any form. Retadin: 5man Does more consistent damage than burst. Not high damage, but consistent. In a favorable instance such as Strat UD, expect a BiS Ret with Hand of Rag to do on average 350-415 damage a second on the trash pulls. This is if you are going AoE style on the trash. Single Target Boss, expect more to 280-345 dps. While most keep their aura up for 10% more holy damage, I frequently request Ret Aura for more AoE tankability, which in turn allows them to go AoE heavy sooner in the pool. So their single target damage numbers I posted above could be a bit higher, it is best for the GROUP to use Ret when doing things as speed clearing 5 mans for the warrior to hold threat. Kings / Might / Wisdom what ever buff you got, will help speed the run up as well. Also you do have LoH in your back pocket, along with spot healing if needed. Utilize your stun more often than not, just not at the start of the pull or you will limit the warriors aggro gains. Solo Solo wise, they fair well for themselves due to their survival skills/bubbles/fast self heal, but with a lack of burst abilities at their disposal, grinding is a bit boring and damage is consistent. A slow weapon with a proc and DMC:Malstrom will help the pain of grinding/farming higher level mobs. Raid (since others mention it) For those that love to only talk Raid: Ret: Night fall 100% of the time in 40 mans to make up for their 300-400 dps with great gear. (note: all off tanks should also have a nightfall for when they are not tanking to help increase uptime). And they should also have a good MP5 set and be a cleanse-bot for fights that require it to free up a healer to focus on healing. (Auto-Nightfall/Cleanse on these fights). Boomkin: BiS will look really good in a guild that clears really fast with moonfire spam, they can get up their on the meters with a ToeP style trinket rolling for the duration. Talking MC zerg boss type fights. You'll see 800-900 DPS on a 16 second Luci kill (if raid tanks the adds while burning the boss). Fights that go longer than 20-30 seconds, they drop substantially in terms of DPS. We all know the buff they bring to a fire mage group - while world buffed, this buff is nil. Without world buffs, another mage keeping the ignite rolling would be better, as they only need 12% base spell crit to break even with the buff with other 4 mages would have gotten. If you do bring one though, same rule with pally, they better have an MP5 set as well for decurse fights to free up a mage to DPS. Also better watch healer mana, innervate your best w/o them having to ask, as often as you can.
  8. ...... read the entire thread. Again, from commenting on a different person who stated only getting 5/5 cruelty rest arms, you are lvl 35 when you get SS. My post also point out and reference: before you went on your power trip. Mind you, because you argue SS at 30, you don't get the 5% crit, so your whit hit formulas then need to be made using 8% crit instead of 13% crit which we did for the comparison of impale vs enrage which enrage was 20%+ better. ...... Today I learned you can not be in Beserker stance unless you have TM. How can I not use Beserker rage and Intercept. Remember Imp Beserker rage is also in the talent tree for fury late 30s. I'm done responding to this ignorance.
  9. We would always roll together. You get your buffs together, so why spread out at the last second. We'd all do a countdown and take the FP at the same time. GG for any body on the receiving end of this We then wait at the bottom part of TP, and everybody run the pace of how fast the 60% mounts can run. Don't go ahead on your 100%. Kill EVERYBODY on the way. Red = Dead. People can then zone in w/o losing buffs.
  10. guide

    Disarm, if using a debuff time as a threat multiplier, would improved disarm then give slightly more threat based on the increased % the talents give? Not game breaking by any means either way seeing as spending into it is considered a sub-par protection spec.
  11. How am I avoiding this? I was commenting on the statement saying Fury gave no upside til mid 30s and compared talents obtainable on a same level. Impale at lvl 31 vs what you reach in the fury tree at 29. The comparison is Enrage vs Impale. And these comparisons only accounting for raw damage done, not even factoring in the 20%+ more rage per second you generate from the damage done alone in fury. If you want to discuss Sweeping strikes, which is obtainable at level 35 (if incorporating the 5% crit from fury as mentioned before): http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LbGhbIboZV You have to compare it to what you can have at lvl 35 in fury: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LZVVuhMxoz Which gives lower execute cost, more damage on cleave, Death Wish, and starting to work into Flurry. In regards to PVP, I only suggest taking Fury until 40. Pre-30 you don't have Berzk stance, so stance dance for OP isn't an issue til after lvl 30, when you can then have that option in arms. I'd rather just be able to pop Death Wish and drop your ass to execute phase really fast, which remember my executes cost less = do more damage if both specs are done at 15 rage (due to excess rage conversion). Imp Overpower will also only be available when fighting a melee class, limited class benefit. I still have Overpower in Fury, and will do close to same amount of damage on average. Enrage + Deathwish is not class dependent and destroy casters and leather wearers. The "if you had a healer" arms is better makes no sense either. Assuming a leveling partner since you have to assume they are always with you. You have to give the healer to both sides of the argument. In which case, BloodCraze isn't needed to mitigate the increase damage taken on a purposeful crit and you can then take booming voice instead to help in PVP finding druids and rogues, as well give more rage to you due to less times using Battle Shout, and less likely to lose it in a world pvp situation mid fight due to it dropping off. Oh and Piercing Howl? - Hello. Arms you are more likely to get kited if you get caught out of hamstring range. At level 35 and before neither spec have weapon dependability so that argument is pretty much nil. (again assuming you took 5/5 cruelty) All 2Hs are viable for either spec and weapon speed does not matter. Only DPS of the weapon. My napkin math may or may not be correct, but should yield roughly the same result of 20%+ damage in Fury on white hits, as long as you use the same formula for both specs. If there is anything else I am "avoiding" please let me know.
  12. guide

    Base threat and threat from damage done are different. Cleave should have a base threat of 100 threat + how ever much damage you do. Heroic Strike should have a base threat of 175 + how ever much damage you do. While you are informed to cleave on fights such as Val so you don't supersede the secondary tank, it still has a base threat value so you till can climb the meters more than just from your damage output.
  13. guide

    Also another example is shield bash. It has a base threat and the damage done, and additional threat when successful interrupt. There is no "tool tip" information stating this. Kenco's Threat Guide explains the values.
  14. guide

    Battle shout causes threat, but doesn't say it in it's tool tip