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Everything posted by Outstanding

  1. This is true. I've been truly horrid to all of them - mostly because they deserve it - and they still let me post here. I'm sure they politely roll their collective eyeballs.
  2. ''Seems'' ''Probably'' http://archive.is/KFlyG
  3. Wait, what? So you're saying players can play on Crestfall. Really? Is it a test realm? Is CF actually functioning? How come there have been no announcements over this? Is the realmlist sekrit? If you wanted to keep it sekrit then why did you make this post? Why not sticky it in your sekrit Discord channels? Secondly, after all the murky shit over the last what, two years? why would anyone trust anything you say, or anything downloadable associated with you, Crogge?
  4. Also I am no longer Outstanding thanks to 2FA and a phone issue. You'll get me at Malbekh#5943 on d'discord
  5. Hello. Long time no post. This might get modded in the unlikely event that a mod comes along. As it stands, I am the only member on at this time other than 29 ''guests''. So we all know that Blizzard Activision are going to reimagine Vanilla in some way that everyone will find fault and complain about. The only thing we can't complain about is that this iteration will be official, will not disappear up its own behind in a few hours/days/month, will be stable, and will have proper moderation with professional games masters. Everyone is all excited about it, I like others are modestly pleased to the point of giving a damn. There's no point in going into a guessing game on what iteration Blizz will produce, but there is a point in looking at a timeframe. I believe the latest money stealing bullshit extending release of WoW ''Battle for Azeroth'' is due out in September-ish. There is no way Blizz will release retro Vanilla in that time-frame, and clearly not before it. Assuming they want to go with another pandering to the masses expansion in September 2019, I am guessing that retro Vanilla release will be March 2019. You read it here first/you mocked me about this later. So that gives us a year and all the hoo-haa that goes with it. It is possible that CF will release before then. However, the current track record would indicate that it probably won't. As a great believer in making the best of a situation totally not of my own making, I am suggesting that the reasonably modest number of CF members that populated, sustained, participated and enjoyed the PvE forums who will play in retro Vanilla band together to form a guild on whatever EU PvE realm that becomes available. This way, we can continue to enjoy the binds bonds that keep us together. For reference as to what this guild will be like, I direct you to Yav's thread here: Elicas's thread here: My own thread here: It is likely to be Horde (but not definite). It is definitely going to be casual (but may raid depending on #members and #time available and #other guild associations etc). It will only have players who have the correct maturity (regardless of age) and social skills. I'll leave this thread here and might occasionally bump it if there are any developments. Think of it like the last chapter in the.... ...because if you liked that ending, then you'll like this guild. I will bring 5 players to the party (so to speak) of which 2 are actually competent players, clearly this does not include me. My expectations on Retro Vanilla can be discussed at a later point, however, my feelings are that the PvP realms will be dominated by ex-Pserver players/guilds in terms of raids/PvP/economy and this can be replicated on the PvE realm of our choice without the crassness normally associated. Please leave any comments below. I can be contacted by PM or alternatively, you can ping me on Discord from all our previous conversations. Whatever you do, have fun. Best, Outstanding
  6. Hello
  7. Well, that's a surprise for sure. I can see a wealth of CV's heading their way to California based on real experience on prepping Pservers and the database knowledge gained. It still might take a year+ for this to launch. I could see no reason to play on CF, but that would be dependent on what compromises and plans Blizzard had in place. Will it be PTE? Will they have standalone expansions? All very interesting. People will of course, continue to play on Pservers, but all this will fade away as we get closer to release. Kudos to Nostalrius, Kronos, even TRB for being the light in the darkness amongst many dark things like Elysium and other reprobate servers and individuals. Next announcement from Dark should be.....interesting. I hope their CV's get accepted as I reckon they are in the top 1% of candidates. If CF had launched successfully in 2017, it would have been interesting to see how things would have developed. But that conversation is over now.
  8. Any dealings I had with Crogge went pretty well, he always came across well in conversations and seemed a decent skin. He might have been a bit slow to respond to stuff from time to time, but there were plenty of people like that as it was, so effectively it was a norm. There was absolutely nothing apparent that indicated he was any more trustworthy than anyone else involved in this project. I was active when White Kidney came along and it was clear that the level of trust for him was at a far lower bar. There is no way you can gauge people on the internet, in fact, conrissidering how long Crogge has been around CF, you can't gauge people in RL either. Something about Pservers brings about the worst in people. Trusting someone like Crogge, Shenna or Whitekidney is foolish to the extreme. All past indications are that it will end in tears. Whether CF suffers the same fate remains to be seen. Most of the bad decisions are from naivety, innocence or gullibility. None of which are a crime. Truth be told I went off Crogge shortly before I left. On the Discord channel he intimated that he had treated some women really badly, but only because ''they deserved it''. From my perspective that's completely unacceptable.
  9. Disclaimer: The author has been accused of being overweening to the point of arrogance. The author has also been accused of arrogance. Lastly, the author has been accused of projecting, or, in a case of misunderstanding terminology, trying to influence others by using mere words and logic, thus forming a consensus opinion that reflects their own. All and some of this may be true. There are four people I trust in Pservers who act as front of office facemen. First is Darkrasp. Now he and I may not get along much these days. Things have been done and things have been said. There was never a strong relationship to begin with nor a chance for it to develop but, inherently I trust him and his work ethic. He's the backbone of Crestfall and has shown all the loyalty, integrity and honesty you need as a front line manager. Next is Elicas. Again, I don't have much of a relationship with Elicas other than multiple Discord chats and some venting conversations. He's also a bit salty sometimes. But, again I totally trust him to do a professional job and not betray the project or the people he is associated with. Stop laughing at the back there. I know exactly what you're thinking and you're exactly wrong as recent events have shown. Plus, he's the hardest working tester in the multiiverse. Next is Wyke. I do not know Wyke at all. But we have a recorded history of everything he has done and everything he has associated with. I'm sure he's not perfect, but in Pserver terms he is Sir Galahad. Yes, Lancelot gets all the cookies but his fingers were in the pie, so to speak. Last is me. Stands to reason. If you can't ttrust yourself then everything in the world around you is built on quicksand. There's quite a few other people I would trust, but I won't name them. Partly because some won't appreciate it, mostly because they can't, won't or are unsuited to be front of office. You know who you are, so you know I'm not slighting you. If you disagree with my front office analogy about you, then just raise your hand below. It might prove highly amusing. So that's the first challenge of Crestfall. The people who front this from now on have to be trustworthy. I include the four people above because in my opinion, any or all four of us can face up this project and talk to the community, knowing that the people who we count on can trust us. If CF is going to survive in any context, then from my entirely subjective persepctive, it's got to be us or no-one. This is the easy part. ________________________________________ Now we get to the hard part, funding. Hobby bullshit project is bullshit. CF can only survive if it receives a wealthy backer or donations from the community. This should not and cannot come from the developers and staff, although they should feel free to contribute if they want. So what the project needs to do is to establish a slush fund to pay for the hardware/software required, plus the ancillary services of a website, this forum and so forth. We need to set a monthly budget required and ensure we are always 3 months ahead of demand. I do not believe the costs for this are prohibitive. I do not think you would need too many contributions. As a suggestion, I would say a €4.99 monthy subscription and get about 250 people to subscribe, giving us ~€1250 per month. This is enough to pay for contingencies and initial set-up costs, but not enough to make anyone feel greedy. Naturally, transparency is the key. We don't want to name subsribers, but we do want to present a monthly budget to them by email so they can see where the costs are going. This ties in with the trust part above. Now everytime I raised funding up on this forum I was derided and abused, because people don't think they should pay to play on a Pserver. To these people I have only one word to say to you: Elysium. Now, you can change the funding option you like to novelty pets or special mounts, you can pay to retain a name, or change faction or all other cosmetic stuff, but for me this cheapens the game and the reputation of the server. Ultimately with me it's down to having the courage of your convictions. If we believe we are creating a far superior core than anyone else, if we believe that the user experience will be as realistic as possible, if we believe that the server will be run in a professional and impartial way, and if we believe that only CF can provide a PTE experience, why the hell wouldn't people pay for a €5 subscription knowing they can cancel it at any time if we fail to deliver? For this to work, you need to set realistic, achievable goals. By that I mean ''Beta Testing ends xx/xx/xxxx'' ''PTR opens xx/xx/xxxx'' ''Server opens xx/xx/xxxx'' so people can bail out if targets are missed. This brings us back to one of my favourite subjects, project management. Structure. Organisation. Planning. Management. Task Completion. All things you don't hear about in Pserver world. If CF is a better product then it needs to be managed better too. One option on the subscribers is as follows. If for legal, financial, or quality of life reasons it was decided not to go for a free-for-all server available to all, there is always the possibility of engineering a smaller project that is genuinely private, with a target audience of ~2500 people. You can drop the rate down to €1 per month if you like, and invitation would be word of mouth with security clearance as an addition. _____________________________________ Now we get to the hardest part. The back end office. So any of the front office are just contributors to the project. We don't run the project per se, we just do what we're told. We may have integrity and honesty, so if we smell a rat we're first to voice our opinions. But our good friends can't go after us because our association with the project is no different than the secretary or public relations spokesperson in Goldman Sachs. What we need is an owner who is geographically impossible to send a legal writ against. Essentially, the opposite of Gummy/Felmyst. I think this may be the trickiest part but I have a pretty good idea how it can be done. _____________________________________ That's it. Nothing massively complicated. But that's my overweening, projective, arrogant, subjective opinion. It's only part of what we are as a community. So those of you still out there, and those of you lurking in the long grass, feel free to add your own noble, wothwhile, objective and honest rebuttals below.
  10. We're well past the above stage. Now we're at the naval gazing stage. There's nothing that can be done for the current position the project is in, for all I know, they may have made massive progress since I was around in April. Nobody knows. But at least we're having a conversation about it, which is 100% better than the mushroom treatment we normally get. I have no problem trashing what's left of my reputation just so the team can take into account that people still care about the project and want it to succeed.
  11. What community? Do you remember all the threads I used to do focussing on the number of members we had? Remember how we used to spilt it down to placeholders and active members? Do you think I did that for fun? That was to emphasise the correlation between activity and progress and #members. When we did something - like Open Beta - the numbers spiked, people got active, and the community grew and got focussed. That's good old fashioned PR. You slowly build up a head of steam by engaging with your player base in a defined and controlled manner. Two weeks ago you could log on here and therre'd be 4 people online and maybe a dozen guests. That's your communinty. Why did that happen? Because everything was ported over to that wonderful bunch of people in Elysium, including what was left of the community. The community was awesome. This is nothing to do with money - except that, you need money to run this thing. You just need to find a happy medium to get by, and that requires being honest where the money come from and what you do with it. It isn't a business, that's true. That's why servers fail. Did Gummy do a risk assessment on his server before he put months of work into it? Did he listen to the scores of people who told him it would never work in NA? No! Because he's not running a business! Why on earth should he bother his ass spending any time actually thinking about what the consequences of being American and hosting a server in the US would be. Let's just sprinkle magic pixie on the whole thing and hope for the best. You're 100% correct on lower cap base. Nobody want Nostalrius I or II (Elysium) or III (Let's Hope). They just want to have a stable server with a good core, a great community and the hope, because it can only be a hope, that we'll PTE to TBC and beyond. But hey, don't mind me, we'll just use Pixie Dust. #
  12. @Darkrasp I'm not going to apologise from my perspective no more than I'd expect you to back down from yours. Ultimately though, you'd have to admit that the community, those of us outside the staff, have been 100% correct with our assumptions and attitudes to how the project has progressed. LGN? Elysium Merger? Time and time again we've raised concerns only to get thrown under the bus. The core community you could have depended upon to kick-start the servers has long gone, never to return. You could have used this community to help you with progressing the game, but this wouldn't have suited the cliqueness of the project. The problem with the project was that the expectations were set at an unachievable bar from the very start. These weren't set by the community, they were set by Crestfall. You could easily have started the project through the foums on the basis that it might two years or longer to launch, a real hobby project. Now that would have been realistic and sensible. Asura has sworn blind that the server would launch in 2018, again, more expectations. I don't have an issue with hobby projects, but you have to manage those expectations and that was never thought through. Plus, the core issue was always the choke point along the way. ''Everybody has a plan until they get a punch in the face'' but there wasn't even a plan. I guess the thing that pisses me off is the lost opportunities. Crestfall may well launch at some stage this decade but the horse has bolted on to TBC and beyond.
  13. Asura isn't doing X at all unless there's been a change of plan. There was supposed to be a new head dev called Nico who never introduced himself and as far as I know, has disappeared in a puff of logic. Please stop the hobby project mantra. This was never a hobby project until the delays started. People shoudl remember, these forums started in April 2016 with the idea that we would have open Beta in August of that year. That didn't start until the end of the year. 10 months later we are still in open Beta. There's a reason the internal Discord channel was called ''Corecraft 2''
  14. I don't think the forums hosting is expensive, although this platform is more than most others. Similarly, the oft-expected website is the same. However, my limited understanding is that because of the clustering aspects of the Benedict Core, multiple servers are rrequired to run the separate parts, all of which need to be paid for. With Crogge off the financial menu, I'm afraid we're not going to get tangible results other than the work that was put in already, and continues to be put in every day. It's funny that people won't make a contribution and crowdfund a Pserver that shows great potentional. They'd prefer to see it die than take the risk. Yet the same people (not necessarily the people on this thread) will happily play on a free Pserver that becomes a circus like Nostalrius, Elysium and eventually Let's Hope.
  15. Subs/Donations call it what you like, I consider it to be a commitment from the community. To turn the question around, seeing as you've been here for quite some time, are you prepared to contribute to the project? If so, how much? Then you can call it a sub or call it a subscription. As I mentioned above, you could have 6-12 months before launch all of which has to be paid for. Where is the money coming from? The staff pay in time, the community pays in cash.
  16. The royal we of course, alternatively you could be kind and consider 'we' to be the community So first up, maybe I was unclear. Any one of the four people mentioned can be front of office. Personally I'd prefer Darkrasp but I don't think he's cool with all the PR and community minding part. Ideally you want a team of differing talents. In relation to professionalism, professionalism does not mean going to a Harvard business class and using the dubious lessons learned to run a project like this. For example, we're about to move into a house, I'll be doing the painting. The wife will choose the colours, I will organise my weekends and spare time, and I'll get it completed before the carpets and floors go in. I will do a professional job, I won't be as quick as a hired painter but you couldn't tell the difference. I take pride in my work thank you. Same goes for Pservers but the threshold is much higher, because the work you do means thousands of people are depending on the skillsets of your team. This is not the case in MANGoS servers, but it is definitely the case with this one, the first truly standalone core in what, 10 years? Just remember, the owners of Crestfall were the ones that hyped everything up. Numerous promises were made on how good the core would be, plus the DB, the scripts and all other ancillaries compared to MaNGOS. Personally, I don't doubt it is and it might/will be. So if you're going to bring in a better product then for the love of God bring it in with some form of competency = professionalism. There has always been plenty of people around in CF to get things done. I think the biggest issue before I left was getting a bunch of SQL programmers. The issue with the project was the bottleneck at lead-developer/project manager = Asura, and the fact that at least 50% of the testers were lazily bollixes who spend most of their time in Elysium doing raids or going AFK. Nothing wrong with the numbers, everything wrong with the dilligence and focus. Regardless of what you do Pserver-wise you will be targeted by Blizzard. Blizzard tried to shut down Kronos without success. They have (allegedly) tried to shut down Elysium without success unless WK is one of their agents. They might try to shut down Let's Hope, I don't know. They did shut down Nostalrius, except they didn't in the end. They did shut down Gummy but that was hardly a reach now, was it? Having subs, a vanity shop, a Paypal scam is all the same thing to Blizz. If you have the numbers and are succesful they want a piece of you. One final point on subs. I don't think the penny has clicked with people that Crogge was the main financial backer of the project. So this forum could disappear tonight should he wish to do so. Regardless of the matter, if the CF team decide to continue on with the show, they are going to need hard cash to host servers, run this forum, get a website up and running etc. No shop is going to pay for this, it wil ahve to be done on trust. Hence subs.
  17. @SweN We never left. I'm not sure about @Elicas though, he was pretty burnt out by the time he left, so might not have the desire to withstand another punch in the face. As usual, I'll drop a short and concise 🤣 thread tonight on the whole circus.
  18. The only person I trusted in this whole farce is Darkrasp. I don't trust Asura - not on principles - just on work ethic I don't trust Crogge full stop - owing to relationship issues with Elysium Things have been said on both sides, I don't really know if there's anything left to salvage. I haven't even bothered checking what the drama is about, I'll check later.
  19. https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/54584-darkrasps-blog-9182017/
  20. Yeah, well I miss writing them. Contrary to what people may think, there is zero difference between the perspective of the old community heads and the developers of Crestfall in terms of what we wanted to happen. The issue is just about where we are now and how we got there. There is a huge, massive requirement for a kick-ass Pserver version of Warcraft as per the Benedict core, a PTE philosophy, and a mature, committed community prepared to regulate itself through a panel of gamesmasters with a shared philosophy. The potential was huge.
  21. Greets. Maybe not quite the right topic to suit the realm discussion forum but I hate blank canvasses so there you go. So it strikes me that there will be a lot of visitors to this forum that actually have never played WoW (hard to believe, I know) or have never experienced the dubious 'pleasures' of Vanilla. I also feel that it's likely that employees, representatives and camp followers of retail may turn up from time to time to keep an eye on things and consider a C&D order against, what the hell, KUL TIRAS. So I don't have any right to represent the players, the GM's, the administrators or the developers being just a simple player, and a poor one at that (but so good at irony), so I will speak for myself as to why I want to play vanilla wow, and why I want to play on this server with this engine. More learned, eloquent, experienced and passionate individuals can post hereafter, should they wish to do so. I plead a cathartic need to express myself. 1. I'm old. Well, 51 isn't THAT old but it probably puts me in the wrong 5% chronologically. More particularly, it puts me at an age where my formative years in gaming predates MMO's and most computer games. I mean, when I was a teenager, Space Invaders was the most awesome electronic experience you could have - although I preferred pinball to be honest. So when I was experiencing gaming, it was through RPG's like Basic D&D, Runequest, Traveller et al. Most of my peers who also play WoW would spend years in RPG campaigns as a cooperative measure of gaming experience that gave us all a lot of interpersonal skills as an unseen bonus, friendships for life, as well as a grounded love of fantasy and SF. A progression to computer games as an alternative to RPG's was a no-brainer, but all of them were First Person and so never replicated the cooperative and social aspects of RPG's 2. I love WoW. Luckily for me, I never had to go through early MMO's like Ultima, Age of Camelot and Everquest - which I'm sure were fine, but not a patch on WoW. No, I went straight to university when a bunch of us decided we would pick one MMO and just get a taster for what this new fangled computer game was like. It was a lot different then. First of all, none of us knew what the fuck we were doing. Most of us were Night Elves and half of us were Druids. We all thought Darkshore was a normal quest area. We didn't have Interfaces or add-ons. We were awful in instances and generally avoided them. PvP was scary, if we got into a fight with Horde we panicked and spammed Levitate or some other useful spell. We were, sorry some of us were, just terrible players. But. We. Had. Fun. There is a quest in Teldrassil called 'Relics of Wakening'. It is an awful quest in a cave system with rapidly spawning mobs, hard to locate NPC's and nearly everyone in the area is drawing adds or just getting in the way. I completed it the first time because some Romanian 17th level warrior insisted on making us a group (I didn't know how) and killing every mob as an escort until I was finished. His English was slightly better then my Romanian but we got through it. I had never, and have since never, experienced the love, comradeship, friendship and downright humanity in a gaming interface as I discovered through WoW. And all of this was on underpowered computers and crappy internet connections. 3. The WoW expansions. Burning Crusade is the single greatest gaming expansion of all time. It is the Godfather II of gaming sequels to the Godfather. It was the perfect example of what made WoW, WoW, and the biggest feather in the cap of Blizzard that they will ever have (sorry Hearthstone, Overwatch). Burning Crusade represents my apogee in WoW. A Drenai Shaman, a farmer, a fisherman, Karazhan, guilds, camaraderie, interfaces, PuG's, Flying Mounts, Daily quests (eventually) and even PvP. The single most enjoyable online gaming experience I have ever had. It's not that the game was necessarily easier (I always leveled to 60 first as Hellfire was such a chore), but at least you only had to get 10 more levels (or 70 as a new race) and the increase in professions was relatively easy. But it was just the same, but only better. 4. The decline and fall of the Blizzard Empire. It didn't happen overnight. WotLK had its faults (like DK's) but it was a natural progression. Cataclysm on the other hand was wisely named and I didn't even bother with Mists or WoD. The game was not the same. Funny thing was, we tried other MMO's but none of them lasted and we all got tired of them pretty quickly. Most of us had work commitments, or family and social commitments, or plain just grew up. And yet....and yet....there was always a fire burning for the good old times. Now we knew the past was never going to be the same, for many reasons. We were eventually, better players. Our grasp of economics was sound. We knew how to multitask and maximise efforts and minimise the workload. But secretly we all wanted to go back to those halcyon days where men were real men and Taurens were real cows. Often I would go on Blizzard forums and read the posts from other, similar players, who wanted to experience vanilla and early expansions. Always there would be a response from a blue saying basically it wasn't physically possible, it would cost too much, you wouldn't like it, YOU THINK YOU DO BUT YOU DON'T. There would be a plethora of younger players trying to encapsulate why anyone would want to wait until L40 to get a mount. Or have 40 man raids. Or what world PvP might be like. Under the Blizzard hegemony they would never know. 5. Dad, have you ever heard of Nostalrius? It's a private vanilla WoW server and I'm just dinged L12. Well no I hadn't. I had never even thought of looking for private servers. I didn't even know what Reddit was. But there I was, after a very short download in Tedrassil hearing that wonderful music again. It nearly brought a tear to my eye. No seriously, I was chopping onions there, very sensitive so I am. Then it was easy, got a good friend over and then ensnared enough RL mates to do instances. Downloaded Mumble and the boys were back in town. But not as we know, for long. So when the C&D shut down Nost it really pissed me off. OI moved on to other private servers but none of them worked for me, bad latency, PvP only, tiny populations. Always, I joined when the servers were mature, never got the chance to start from scratch. 6. And then came Crestfall. So this was it. This was the one I could get involved with from the start. This was a version of Vanilla where it was going to go out all present and correct. No stone would be left unturned. You can tell. The whole forum breathes professionalism. These are my kind of people. This is my home. Either this works out and I stay here as long as it exists or it doesn't and I will never play WoW again. I want to play vanilla WoW because it is a completely better and different version of the game to current retail. I want to play vanilla WoW because I have paid my dues to Blizzard in purchasing expansions and monthly subscriptions. I don't owe you anything anymore, you have no say over me. I will never play on official Blizzard legacy or vanilla servers because a) they don't understand and will never get it right and b) they'll never do it anyway. YOU THINK YOU DO BUT YOU DON'T I want to play on Crestfall because I trust these guys and I know they get it. So those of you antipathetic to Vanilla, or Private Servers, or looking for their pound of corporate flesh, I have no argument with you. Your opinion is as worthy as mine. But I challenge you to express yourselves as forthrightly and passionately as we do. For those of you who never experienced WoW, or vanilla, come join us and see what all the passion is about. And if you are failing Relics of Awakening, PM me in game, and I'll take you though it and return the favour I still owe.
  22. With little respect, what have you done for the vanilla community and otherwise?
  23. There is no chance that Elysium could actually bring out a decent working core with TBC on it. They have no ability for innovation, everything they've done has been borrowed from other Pservers. As you know, there has never been a decent TBC core. So where are they going to beg/borrow/steal it from? It's a bullshit statement from a bullshit franchise. It's known that the team here were working on a TBC variant using the new core. To that end, there is some development on a TBC realm in terms of structure and the DB. But none of this is transferable over to Elysium in any significant way. I was always puzzled how Crogge was going to fit in with all this. His stated aim was to use the Benediction core to allow him a standalone TBC variant under his own brand ''Legacy Crusade'' There was a forum on this, now removed, here http://forums.legacy-crusade.com/index.php?/forum/3-legacy-crusade/ But how was this going to get any decent population from CF? After all, while people love TBC, most would happily move onto WotLK and beyond, making Crogge's realm a cultural backwater in non-PTE-ness. The answer to this of course was his footsie playing skills with Shenna. This brought us the shit that was Legacy Gaming Network, and now the takeover merger of CF and Elysium. So it's very much a dalliance of a large number of freeloaders on one side (Elysium) and a small number of brilliant innovators/hard workers on the other (CF). This is the equivalent of an arranged marriage. Pristine, college educated and beautiful daughter marrying some lecherous tribal lord with money and connections. There will never be an Elysium TBC realm before 2019. It will be Crogge's original standalone server. It will be based on Benediction. BTW, someone is working very hard on Reddit wowservers to edit out negative opinion. This was removed with no explanation given and no option to reformat: https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/6v9cdu/the_elysium_take_down_of_crestfall/
  24. Except it does. The people who quit on the project are the community managers of this world, because they see no future in the CF community there. It's not Crestfall after all. Neither Elicas nor I have anything against CF, after all, we put our hearts and souls into it, this isn't bitter resentment, it's a factual assessment from those that understand what the project had to offer (new PvE realm, anyone?) and now feel obligated to give a damning assessment of how things currently stand, because we feel we're actually qualified to do so. The fact that Wyke, one of the very few calm, neutral and factual-based observers in Pservers - he's played extensively on all of the major and minor ones - won't touch the project with a 10' barge pole - reaffirms all the negative and depressed sentiment here. It saddens me to see the increasing amount of rearranging of deckchairs on this Titanic by people who should know better at this stage.