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Everything posted by Outstanding

  1. Certainly one of the hardest workers I've come across. So glad you're sticking to the NDA as well. Look forward to the next community manager announcement.
  2. You're more than welcome in continuing to entertain yourselves with your ad hominem comments and amateur psychoanalysis. I'll just stick to the facts... I spent 12 months helping to build up this community. The reward was to become the community manager and a beta tester - special assignment fishing I spent two weeks going through the fishing and associated bugs and two weeks getting mightily concerned and then depressed about the management and structure of the project When it became clear that the choice was to betray the staff by voicing my concerns or betray the community by pretending everything was fine, I resigned. This is called a conflict of interest. I offered to inform the community of the reasons why I quit but only if the NDA was removed. As that offer wasn't made I kept my mouth shut for the last 12 weeks. I left all Discord channels. Only when I received a PM and about the reddit post and someone started a thread followed by people asking me direct questions did I respond. I now ignore the NDA as the reddit thread specifically mentions me three times and ties me in with the opinion piece. Besides, most of the opinions broadly mirror my own, without the vulgarities. I know who the reddit poster is, so does the staff management. It will be of minor interest how they handle the situation. At all times I have behaved with integrity and decency. I still have huge respect for the staff, management and developers. It could still be released, at some stage. Unfortunately, the Pserver window has moved on from where we were one year ago, six months ago, three months ago and now into the future. These things happen, I'm off doing different things now and enjoyed my time here. I still love the community but it's been dying for some time now. Goodbye.
  3. As long as Asura controls all the choke points on this project it will fail.
  4. Yeah, I think there's a misconception here. The whole point about CF was the differences between it and other similar projects. This is apparent by the forums and the community. For me the key to CF was that it was based on a whole new core and not a C&P MaNGOS version that someone made occasional tweaks to, or a ''merged'' core we borrowed from another project who did far more work than we're competent in doing. Then you have the PTE issue. Most, if not all servers contend themselves by sticking to one vanilla flavour and run the server/realm until it stagnates like a swamp. The ambitions behind CF to have it's own core and PTE shows a scale of ambition and balls unlike anything we've seen before. Hence, you need to have your shit sorted and in good order, a realistic timeline, successful task completion points and so forth. The Pserver scene is littered with many failures and few successes, so if the argument is that CF is no different in the way it goes about its business, then for something more complex and more ambitious you can draw your own conclusions. I guess the community - whom I do not represent - will hope that the current reality check will enforce a more open and realistic approach in how they manage the project and the optics with their audience.
  5. What I was referring to there was that Darkrasp gives people the updates and you can trust him in the sense he's not going to lie. Nobody really lies from the core staff. They might be terribly optimistic, naive and trusting. But unlike other servers/realms they won't lie to you. Elicas is different in that he takes a more aggressive tone, even on himself. He also has the expertise. So you would have him in the team as a no-holds supervisor if people were slacking or not doing their job.
  6. Placeholder. For more information: Back once Beta is released based on feedback
  7. So C&D comes in differing flavours. People use C&D as a one-size-fits-all usage but I know there are varying levels of seriousness. This ranges from the generic cut & paste sent to the host provider by Mr A-Z solicitor representing their esteemed clients Activision Inc. Then there's the letter delivered by your local policeman to you in your home that he requires your signature on. You can be very blasé if you are living in rented accommodation with no material goods, but it's a different story when you have tangible assets like a house, a business and a family. Then, it's not so sunny and light any more. It is the latter that happened to Nostalrius and happened again after the ''core merge'' with Elysium. No hobby project is worth losing your livelihood over.
  8. Well the issue here is as follows. This project has been on the go for well over a year, and in all that time there have been zip leaks. Think about that. That can only mean that the people in the project had high integrity and exceptional loyalty. There was nothing anyone could do if someone gobbed off. The fact that someone is now gobbing off and is being - broadly speaking - accurate in their assessment can only mean that the project is at crisis point and there's nothing to gain by being schtum.
  9. It was only a question of time before this happened. I will try to keep this < Epic in terms of sheer walls of text as I know you all have a limited attention span to my novellas - possibly with good reason. So, as a preface I think we need to add in some colour as far as my perspective is. One is, as most of you have mocked me before about is my uh....upper echelon in terms of age compared to other gamers. Yes, it is true I have player Asteroid and Space Invaders with your parents. Probably losing to them too. So you'll kind of understand that over 50 it is very much a case of time is money friend. In short, and rather pointedly, you are less inclined to waste your precious time on things with a low payback threshold. The other important thing is that my RL work involves an awful lot of project management. Some I take responsibility for, some I am just another cog in the wheel. I am not saying I am any good, but what I can tell you is that I can go on any project, look and see what's happening and make a valued and pretty accurate judgement. Now, let's go back in time..... (suitable and expensive special effects) So here we are in April 2016 and in a shiny new and surprising excellent forum the Crestfall Community is born. As one of the first here I spend some time bedding myself in before using my usual empathy (+2 mod) and diplomacy (+1) to limpet myself in as a pillar of the community. Not having an in depth knowledge of the game, mechanics, history, coding, DB, scripting or any worthwhile and useful skill is no challenge to this natural born politician's press secretary. Also to be fair, this is a great community, and we all really love the game and only want the best for Crestfall, the community and each other.. So it took the best part of a year for me to get onto the inside track of Crestfall. It was more accident than design that found me in the inner sanctum of the Discord channels as community manager as well as some sort of composite tester - like the fishing and stuff. So as one of the Beta testers I was able to have quite a lot of fun with the .commands and start testing stuff. I also spent about a week keeping my big mouth shut and observing what was happening in terms of the project. From my - and I have to say expert opinion - the project had/has all the signs of being a failure. There are a number of reasons for this, and I'll explain as we go along. What's important to point out is that at all times the intention was to create a v2.0 of warcraft emulation and that all the tools and people were in place to achieve this. I should point out at this stage that signing up to be a beta tester you are obliged to sign an NDA. I have kept my mouth shut about the project for months now, partly down to the NDA as reputation is important, but mostly down to the respect I feel towards those still involved in this project. As people were recruited to the project based on their integrity first and their abilities afterwards, most of us feel the same way. For me, the NDA is now irrelevant based on the current leaker and their opinion piece - by the way I know who it is - but also because there a number of references about me that need to be addressed. (somber music - like Zimmer but with more depth) I left the project because I had a fatal conflict of interest. On the one hand I was community manager, so my job is press secretary for the project by dealing with questions, queries and issues from the community and relaying them to the staff and the answers back to the community. I was also there to represent the community, that meant I was a weather vane/dead canary that was to ensure that we didn't have another Legacy Gaming Network fiasco. Based on a friendly community which it is/was and a committed project team it should have been a doddle. Unfortunately it became clear after a month or two that we had a fatal issue on the project that was never going to rectify itself. Accordingly, I would have had to be ''economical with the truth'' in addressing the community pretending AKA lying that everything was fine when clearly it wasn't. This was something I was not prepared to do, and that's why I quit. How can I represent a community on a project that I am convinced is destined for failure? 12 months of work down the drain. But better cutting and running than going double or quits. So what exactly were the fatal issues involved with the project? it's pretty simple. In any normal project you have......dun dun duhhh! A project manager. They may not be the most important person on the project, but they are the one that makes it work, they are the ones that ensure tasks are completed on time. They are the naggy bastards that make you work all through the night rather that having to hear how disappointed they are with yet another failure and a suggestion that perhaps your job is a little too much for someone of your meager talents. Alas, CF does not have a project manager. Well, it does to the extent that his name is Asura. But the issue here is that Asura is not, and can't be, a project manager. He can't do this job owing to a lack of skillsets and talent, but also because he is lead developer. In any project, the project manager > lead developer/wunderkind/astronaut because the project manager must be able to bring them to task if they are not doing their job or missing deadlines. Any project where the chosen one is also project manager is going to have huge problems in range of conflicts. Added together with Asura's casual attitude to diplomacy, tact and personal interactions and you can hopefully understand that after a very short time it was time to exit stage right and shut down the whole concept that Crestfall was going to be anything like I hoped it would be. Now of course, that was some time ago. When I left I was given the option on staying on in the Discord channels as a sign of trust but I declined. If I was out, I was out fully. What really stuck in my craw was that the tools were in place to actually deliver a superior product in an acceptable time-frame. This is because there are supremely talented individuals on the project. First you have Asura. Regardless of his lack of management and people skills he is a very talented developer. He's also a decent person when he's in a good place. The project is all about him, both on the basis of it succeeding and also on its failure. A real Ying and Yang situation. With a highly able manager he would be or will be someone special - in the correct vernacular. Darkrasp should really be the project manager as he's the JoT of the group. A singularly very impressive individual who is utterly, utterly trustworthy and a paragon of common sense and ability. The person you would really like to have as your next-door neighbour. Elicas has put more time into this project than anyone else, primarily has the most to lose. He's not quite project manager material (Diplomacy -1) but he's forgotten more WoW stuff than the rest of us remember. I know he was lead tester and in charge of the misfits that were testing the project, but he probably did the same as the rest of us combined. Elicas would have put the structure into place that the project would have meshed into. That would have allowed the project manager to judge timelines and tasks in a coherent fashion. Also, critically Elicas is a no-bullshit artist. So if he says someone is not pulling their weight, then their not pulling their weight. One other person was the most talented at all but they would not like me mentioning their name. On top of that, there were 4-5 others who were dependable, knowledgeable and worked hard when required. All the above in the right structure would have delivered the project in an acceptable time-frame. Alas for us, that structure was not there. When I was leaving it was suggested that I was being unreasonable owing to the fact that this was a hobby project. This is 100% bullshit. It is the same 100% bullshit behind people that talk about the server/realm/game being FTP therefore what do you expect? Bottom line is, if a bunch of talented people come together to create something special, then being a bunch of talented people put a plan in place. Populate the plan with people who can enact it. Under promise and over deliver. This isn't the cutting edge of gaming here. The mistakes on this project and to a certain degree, the people on it, are making the same mistakes sometimes by the same people since Warcraft emulation started. I have an excuse, I was never involved in this genre before, many others have without learning from their inadequacies. As for the players, as my Scottish cousins would say ''It's the hope that kills you'' Now I would like to address the elements in the reddit post where I'm named..... Outstanding quit the CM role because Asura is lying to the CF forum community about how far along the project has been all this time Not true really. I quit because at some stage I would be lying to the community and that I was pretty sure the project wasn't going to finish My faith in Asura went out the window about a week after Outstanding left the project. He's a fucking brilliant developer, but he's a completely shit Project Manager and an even worse community rep. There shouldn't be a connect there. I did hope that by leaving it would be the ultimate canary in the coalmine and they would get their act together, but that would be to overvalue my worth by a huge multiple. Frankly, it needs a bigger team. Bringing this up however, is what led to us losing our first main Community Manager. Outstanding was gone about 48 hours after he mentioned it. I'm not so sure about a bigger team. I certainly feel that the core people were more than adequate to succeed in the right roles. However, I do feel that what could have happened was that the community on the forums, and I would have a list of about 20 people, could have been brought in to do all the donkey work, but only if the fixers could keep up. Something that was simply was not happening. There is no moral of the story here. That can only apply when the project launches or they admit it can't be done. There are more important things in life. Happy to hang around and answer specific questions.
  10. Right, if you'll all give me some time I'll post a response on this. It was only a question of time before this happened.
  11. You summoned me? Not with me in it, but I'm back to talk about more important things. Hang on while I write War & War
  12. Greets. Maybe not quite the right topic to suit the realm discussion forum but I hate blank canvasses so there you go. So it strikes me that there will be a lot of visitors to this forum that actually have never played WoW (hard to believe, I know) or have never experienced the dubious 'pleasures' of Vanilla. I also feel that it's likely that employees, representatives and camp followers of retail may turn up from time to time to keep an eye on things and consider a C&D order against, what the hell, KUL TIRAS. So I don't have any right to represent the players, the GM's, the administrators or the developers being just a simple player, and a poor one at that (but so good at irony), so I will speak for myself as to why I want to play vanilla wow, and why I want to play on this server with this engine. More learned, eloquent, experienced and passionate individuals can post hereafter, should they wish to do so. I plead a cathartic need to express myself. 1. I'm old. Well, 51 isn't THAT old but it probably puts me in the wrong 5% chronologically. More particularly, it puts me at an age where my formative years in gaming predates MMO's and most computer games. I mean, when I was a teenager, Space Invaders was the most awesome electronic experience you could have - although I preferred pinball to be honest. So when I was experiencing gaming, it was through RPG's like Basic D&D, Runequest, Traveller et al. Most of my peers who also play WoW would spend years in RPG campaigns as a cooperative measure of gaming experience that gave us all a lot of interpersonal skills as an unseen bonus, friendships for life, as well as a grounded love of fantasy and SF. A progression to computer games as an alternative to RPG's was a no-brainer, but all of them were First Person and so never replicated the cooperative and social aspects of RPG's 2. I love WoW. Luckily for me, I never had to go through early MMO's like Ultima, Age of Camelot and Everquest - which I'm sure were fine, but not a patch on WoW. No, I went straight to university when a bunch of us decided we would pick one MMO and just get a taster for what this new fangled computer game was like. It was a lot different then. First of all, none of us knew what the fuck we were doing. Most of us were Night Elves and half of us were Druids. We all thought Darkshore was a normal quest area. We didn't have Interfaces or add-ons. We were awful in instances and generally avoided them. PvP was scary, if we got into a fight with Horde we panicked and spammed Levitate or some other useful spell. We were, sorry some of us were, just terrible players. But. We. Had. Fun. There is a quest in Teldrassil called 'Relics of Wakening'. It is an awful quest in a cave system with rapidly spawning mobs, hard to locate NPC's and nearly everyone in the area is drawing adds or just getting in the way. I completed it the first time because some Romanian 17th level warrior insisted on making us a group (I didn't know how) and killing every mob as an escort until I was finished. His English was slightly better then my Romanian but we got through it. I had never, and have since never, experienced the love, comradeship, friendship and downright humanity in a gaming interface as I discovered through WoW. And all of this was on underpowered computers and crappy internet connections. 3. The WoW expansions. Burning Crusade is the single greatest gaming expansion of all time. It is the Godfather II of gaming sequels to the Godfather. It was the perfect example of what made WoW, WoW, and the biggest feather in the cap of Blizzard that they will ever have (sorry Hearthstone, Overwatch). Burning Crusade represents my apogee in WoW. A Drenai Shaman, a farmer, a fisherman, Karazhan, guilds, camaraderie, interfaces, PuG's, Flying Mounts, Daily quests (eventually) and even PvP. The single most enjoyable online gaming experience I have ever had. It's not that the game was necessarily easier (I always leveled to 60 first as Hellfire was such a chore), but at least you only had to get 10 more levels (or 70 as a new race) and the increase in professions was relatively easy. But it was just the same, but only better. 4. The decline and fall of the Blizzard Empire. It didn't happen overnight. WotLK had its faults (like DK's) but it was a natural progression. Cataclysm on the other hand was wisely named and I didn't even bother with Mists or WoD. The game was not the same. Funny thing was, we tried other MMO's but none of them lasted and we all got tired of them pretty quickly. Most of us had work commitments, or family and social commitments, or plain just grew up. And yet....and yet....there was always a fire burning for the good old times. Now we knew the past was never going to be the same, for many reasons. We were eventually, better players. Our grasp of economics was sound. We knew how to multitask and maximise efforts and minimise the workload. But secretly we all wanted to go back to those halcyon days where men were real men and Taurens were real cows. Often I would go on Blizzard forums and read the posts from other, similar players, who wanted to experience vanilla and early expansions. Always there would be a response from a blue saying basically it wasn't physically possible, it would cost too much, you wouldn't like it, YOU THINK YOU DO BUT YOU DON'T. There would be a plethora of younger players trying to encapsulate why anyone would want to wait until L40 to get a mount. Or have 40 man raids. Or what world PvP might be like. Under the Blizzard hegemony they would never know. 5. Dad, have you ever heard of Nostalrius? It's a private vanilla WoW server and I'm just dinged L12. Well no I hadn't. I had never even thought of looking for private servers. I didn't even know what Reddit was. But there I was, after a very short download in Tedrassil hearing that wonderful music again. It nearly brought a tear to my eye. No seriously, I was chopping onions there, very sensitive so I am. Then it was easy, got a good friend over and then ensnared enough RL mates to do instances. Downloaded Mumble and the boys were back in town. But not as we know, for long. So when the C&D shut down Nost it really pissed me off. OI moved on to other private servers but none of them worked for me, bad latency, PvP only, tiny populations. Always, I joined when the servers were mature, never got the chance to start from scratch. 6. And then came Crestfall. So this was it. This was the one I could get involved with from the start. This was a version of Vanilla where it was going to go out all present and correct. No stone would be left unturned. You can tell. The whole forum breathes professionalism. These are my kind of people. This is my home. Either this works out and I stay here as long as it exists or it doesn't and I will never play WoW again. I want to play vanilla WoW because it is a completely better and different version of the game to current retail. I want to play vanilla WoW because I have paid my dues to Blizzard in purchasing expansions and monthly subscriptions. I don't owe you anything anymore, you have no say over me. I will never play on official Blizzard legacy or vanilla servers because a) they don't understand and will never get it right and b) they'll never do it anyway. YOU THINK YOU DO BUT YOU DON'T I want to play on Crestfall because I trust these guys and I know they get it. So those of you antipathetic to Vanilla, or Private Servers, or looking for their pound of corporate flesh, I have no argument with you. Your opinion is as worthy as mine. But I challenge you to express yourselves as forthrightly and passionately as we do. For those of you who never experienced WoW, or vanilla, come join us and see what all the passion is about. And if you are failing Relics of Awakening, PM me in game, and I'll take you though it and return the favour I still owe.
  13. That's a lot of work @Elicas well done
  14. Greets, So CF is at worst 10 months away. Like us, you have been spending your time on the forums, reddit and discord and now feel vaguely bored and looking for something to do.... Well, Yavannie and I are on Darrowshire PvE at the moment and Yav is trying out tanking for the first time. I'm uh...a little ahead as a Druid and looking to heal for the first time. So this is going to end in a lot of wipes and fun times. Anyways, as you know we are going to form a guild on Zul'Dare and are currently working on a website + forum. We know some of you have expressed an interest in joining and we are looking for officer-type material/good people we like hanging around with. (edit) Oh yes, silly me. Just for variety we are on the alliance side. This is for hysterical historical reasons. I can assure you on CF we will be HORDE with ATTITUDE So at this early stage (Yav is L8), if anyone is interested in coming onboard please join us ASAP. The guild is called ''Leprechaun Apocalypse'' (don't ask) and you can ping Outstanding or Yav for an invite, just introduce yourself first. I'll be honest and say this is an opportunity for me to weed out desireables from non-desirables. So this is a good opportunity for those of you who want to find out the same thing about me. Yav is 100%, we all know that. So, hopefully see you online. Either that or just be bored. Best Outstanding
  15. Greetings. No polls were killed in this thread. The Guild I'm going to help form a guild. It will be called <The Filthy Casuals>. The purpose of this guild will be a multiple. In the first instance it will be a casual and social guild designed for mature, relaxed people with an abiding sense of humour that don't take themselves too seriously. It might raid, but that's not the be all and end all. It might PvP in BG's and killing that prick Fangorm Staghelm, but that's not important right now. What this guild will appeal to are people who: Level up in their own good time and smell the roses and eat the mushrooms on the way Want to explore all of Vanilla WoW and test the boundaries (literally) of the realm Think that levelling their professions is as important as levelling itself Understand that fishing is nearly as important as downing Kel'Thuzad Are here for the PTE long term Want to make money legally on the AH, form cartels, spread their experiences to guildies in-game and in general, become filthy rich casuals. You get the idea. Why isn't this on the guild forum then? Good question. Because we have to think of the bigger picture. From the very start of Crestfall we've been pursuing a simple goal, that we would have a PvE realm from server start. We've been fortunate in that the devs have been sympathetic to this dream, hence Zul'Dare. Since this was agreed we've been working on a number of other things to try and ensure that we maximise the PvE population. Getting the RP section on the forums is a good example of this. After all, if the realm is all-inclusive then you are maximising your potential. At this stage however, the workload now shifts to us for two salient reasons. The first is that PvE is the poor relation of PvP on private servers. While we don't know what the ratio is, we can make a guess that the population on the PvE realm will be ~60% of its bigger PvP brother. The second reason is that on PvE realms there is always an historic imbalance in favour of the Alliance. Our best guess will be 60:40 in their favour. In essence then, the PvE realm will be gimped in numbers (but still very healthy) and the Horde side on Zul'Dare will be gimped still further. With this natural imbalance it means that those of us who want to join the Zul'Dare horde side are going to have to be high on quality to make up our lack of numbers. So what's the plan then? We may be small in number but we will make up for it because we'll be more organised and resourceful than anyone else. In short, we will actually have a plan. In relation to our faction on Zul'Dare we will have the following tasks to achieve: Use the forums to encourage as many players as possible to roll horde on Zul'Dare without being pushy and obnoxious Act as a support network for new players and guilds in relation to assistance in quests, levelling, equipment and information to make the user experience easier without spoiling their fun Tie in with the top Horde raiding guilds to supply them their mats and consumables at fair prices so they can concentrate exclusively on raid progress From day one, start on the AQ war effort to ensure that the Horde (at least) are not found wanting in fulfilling our side of the bargain Ensure that at the very least, Horde PvE guilds have a chance with server firsts in AQ40 and Naxx as opposed to our Alliance counterparts but in particular, Kul'Tiras Do our damnedest to make Zul'Dare the best realm ever in vanilla WoW (retail or PC) and continue this through all expansions Make RL friends throughout this great community of ours that lasts the years ahead. Final Thoughts We can't do this without the community. I'm guessing based on previous threads that there is a genuine interest in this. We're kicking this off now before Beta so we can get an inkling if it's worth pursuing, so let us know what you think, good and bad. There's a placeholder launched on the guild forums just to get first dibs on the name. We'd like to see an Alliance equivalent whom we'll call The Casual Filthy's to replicate what we're doing here and for neutral AH action. PvE has always been about community. Let's reach out and snowball our realm.
  16. I hope we get some good covfefe
  17. Hello everyone, The forums were created on the 16th April last year with Asura and Crogge as our first members. We rolled out into the public arena on the 17th, when most of us started to join. One year on, and we've had our ups and downs, but incrementally we get closer and closer to server launch with every day. We'd like to take this opportunity on our anniversary to thank you, the community. Not just because you populate these forums and keep things ticking over, but because you will form the backbone of the players, ensuring that the quality of the server and the realms is reflected by the quality and commitment from the players. Thank you.
  18. It's not the tea and biscuits you should be worried about, it's the ''hugs''
  19. @Nocturn personally I'm not so I'm not sure who is online these days. Most people have nearly all guild controls so there should be no problem getting an invite.
  20. Zul'Dare will stand or fall on the number of people who play there, and the financial commitment they bring. Any opinion is pointless as people have a choice. This whole argument is boring and irrelevant.
  21. So I checked Urban Dictionary and it was only at explanation #9 that we got a basic definition: There's another alternative here: So here's the interesting thing. Most of you are fully aware how Vanilla WoW compares to retail in the sense that over an extended period of time, Blizzard have actively reduced the amount of effort required by players to advance in levels, gain reputation and rewards, or get access to game time reducers like mounts. A common mistake is that people have called this 'dumbing down the game'. It is no such thing. As an example, I can offer my experiences in playing the game in Vanilla or TBC where my role as healer involved pretty much standing in one spot and spamming appropriate spells, compared to WotLK, where I had to do complex tasks like moving FFS, or taking part in timed actions that reduced the chances of party wipes. All in all, instance and raid skills were far more complicated = skillful, than what I experienced in Vanilla. But I digress. We are playing vanilla, and will be for quite some time. So the purpose of this thread is to highlight that critical element to Vanilla WoW that separates it from retail on a permanent basis. This is of course the fact that vanilla is the biggest grindfest (and therefore timesink) in pretty much any playable game (bar Everquest), and if you are going to be moderately successful you are going to need to be pretty good at it. Unlike the second urban definition, grinding in WoW will not make you a better player. Your skill in vanilla is not determined by how much grinding you have done. You will not become a stronger nor better player by outgrinding others. Of course, constant raiding and PvPing will make you a better player from experience, but not necessarily a skillful one. So let's examine this grinding malarkey and break it down according to criteria: Level Grinding The classic chicken and egg question of WoW, is it quicker to level up by grinding on mobs or is it quicker to level up by questing? The answer of course is both. Grinding on appropriate level mobs in my experience is faster than questing. It also the advantage in that the loot gained from your grinding is sellable/tradeable and thus removes the burden of cash-flow problems. Your positive bank balance can then be used to invest in a few blue items every 10 levels to further increase your grind speed ratio. However, the truth of the matter is that grinding alone while faster, is imbalanced and frankly, incredibly mind-numbingly dull. So my actual recommendation is that you should always look for a life-balance of level advancement in questing (chain quests give good rewards + getting your reputation to exalted saves a ton of money on mounts), combined with certain instances (mostly for Boss drops, quest hand-ins and a quick level up for little work - Deadmines being a classic example), and finally selective grinding spots where you can jump 5 or so levels in a short space of time. To make full use of the level grinding you should tailor it for your own needs. For example, Raven Hill Cemetery/Duskwood is a favourite of mine, it has some of the best quest chains in the game, has some brilliant elites that kick ass if you get on the wrong side of them, and gives a great grinding area for secondary professions like fishing and first aid. Other 'proper' professions like tailoring will concentrate on humanoids for cloth drops, beasts for skinning as a leatherworker (Yetis in Hillsbrad etc) or even just concentrating on grinding mobs where there are excellent resources (Thousand Needles for ores etc). The key thing here in my opinion is balance and working smart. Grinding mobs for XP is all very well, but if you have a sidebar on leveling professions or sandwiching it between a couple of instances or completing some suitable geographical quests then the grinding seems part of an ongoing sequence. The other element to take into account is that some classes do not grind particularly well in vanilla, like say Paladins and to a lesser extent, warriors. Just as importantly, some mobs are not particularly friendly to grinding if your class has no decent spell interrupt for example. Just remember, that from L58-60 you are going to have to grind mobs the level up anyway... Oh, and we forgot about bags. There's no point in spending all your time level grinding with repeated trips to the AH, bank or vendor because your pathetic bag space keeps getting full. You can never have enough big bags so get to know a tailor or upgrade as a priority whenever you have the spare funds. Er, we also forgot about different types of level grinding so for example, single target grinding as outlined above, then AOE grinding using spells which tends to be class/mob specific (this usually requires skills) and then finally Power AOE grinding where you persuade some, preferably higher level player than you, to heal you as you go AOE mad, reducing the fine line between multiple mob deaths or getting killed as you were too greedy/stupid/unskilled. Finally, I completely forgot about having a relevant add-on like Titan Panel as some of the units available Handy link to add-ons here keep track of XP/per hour, ~time until next level, gold/per hour and lots of relevant stuff as to how good or bad the area/mobs you are grinding on. Farming is grinding with one less letter Scarily, the very first definition of farming in Urban Dictionary is not 'working on the land to produce foodstuffs for your fellow human beings' but rather: In video games, it's when you collect a bunch of a certain item in order to power yourself up. Orb farming in Devil May Cry 3. Soul farming in Castlevania: Aria/Dawn of Sorrow. Seriously, I fear for the human race, but as usual I digress..... There is a difference between farming and grinding, but it's a very small one. Grinding is a useful definition on what makes Vanilla WoW different from retail WoW, apart of course from the social, community, bonding, getting to know people, cooperative and just plain this is what makes people, people differences of course. Whereas farming tends to focus on one aspect of the game where a repeat action gives a definitive result. This result is usually but not always an improvement to the character performing the farming. Some classic examples of this would be: Gold farming There are many, many guides on how to farm gold in Vanilla most of which are trash. If there was an easy way to circumvent the grind that is Vanilla WoW we'd all be doing it. In essence, gold farming is all about finding the area/mobs/instances/raids that are level appropriate for your toon(s) that provide a maximum amount of gold/per hour. As there are many ways to generate gold (cash drops/equipment drops/materials for professions/rare drops) there are a very large number of ways of doing this. Best to break this down into a manageable process is to determine why people need gold in the first place. For starters, you need gold to level up your toons. Typically this involves three separate areas. The first is to purchase new character skills for your class from the trainer. This starts to get very expensive at around L30 where the amount of cash you make from questing doesn't cover the full costs. People who are power leveling will typically ignore non-essential skills and just purchase the ones that maximise DPS output or damage mitigation. This is why my personal choice is to incorporate level grinding with questing as the extra income provided gives you a better balance. The second reason is leveling up your professions. As already discussed, questing and level grinding in areas that will also allow access to materials for professions saves time and gold. However, there is a preferred option to this for some people with power leveling. When this server(s) start, the players who advance to L60 first will have an enormous advantage over everyone else. By ignoring the siren call to a balanced approach to leveling they get to 60 and just concentrate on farming the most appropriate cash/vendor junk mobs. This makes them the richest players on Crestfall and allows them the facility to purchase any item on the AH they require. As the AH is comparatively small and most people are leveling up in relation to each other, the items they need to advance there professions are very cheap, and what they really save on is the time they would have 'wasted' on this grind in the first place. The third reason is acquisition of a mount. For some cheating classes like Warlocks, this is not a problem. For other classes like hunters and druids it's not so critical thanks to their own in-class speed boosts. But for everyone else, access to a mount is the single most important event that reduces the grind in WoW. Clearly, if you are leveling up by questing then a 60% increase in speed means getting from one quest hub to another, handing in quests and all-round general moving about in Vanilla is a massive time-saver. For power-levelers this is not that relevant as they tend to grind on appropriate mobs that are easy to get to, or just not bother going to an inn as rested XP just isn't that relevant. So as you can see from the above, gold farming as an aid to leveling your toon or professions doesn't really make a lot of sense until you are at a reasonably high level (50+) where the gold you generate allows you to take advantage of a poorly developed AH or purchase that mount. Depending on how you level, you can either take an holistic approach where you level everything in tandem (level/professions/secondary skills/reputation) which will be slow, or just select an item from the menu and stick with that. So in reality, gold farming only becomes relevant at end levels. Here, the people who power-leveled to 60 at the start need to be in a similar power-leveling guild or they won't have access to the raids and instances they need to give the best cash returns. Similarly, the baby economy in the AH won't be interested in a large amount of the products they can harvest, either because they are not level-appropriate or because they simply can't afford them. So for the first few weeks a small circle of elites will be trading and selling amongst themselves. However, as the number of players blossom and level-up, the economy gets stronger and the raiding and farming gets more lucrative. At a later stage a glorious tipping point occurs. The raiding guilds give up farming on mobs/instances/items and start farming raids instead. While this is mostly down to acquiring boss drops to better equip their members it's also about generating cash. This cash is used to purchase the unbelievable amount of consumables raiding guilds need. These consumables are usually provided by players like me who level up holistically and rely on these raiding guilds to provide me with an income. This is a virtuous cycle that is finely balanced. The balance can be upset by things such as multiboxing, bad scripting like multiple item nodes, gold farming for cash and numerous other exploits. For this, we as a community need to support the staff of Crestfall to keep these instances down to a minimum. So to recap on gold farming: Gold farming involves a grinding routine in an area where the net result is cash That it's probably not effective to do this as a leveling enhancement unless you want the proceeds to pay for your professions/mount That those who level to 60 first will farm to retrospectively enhance the areas they neglected to level up on their journey as well as getting raiding materials for consumables That when these individuals start to raid effectively, the gold farming is usually done by the second the third tiers of players who reach level 60 That the community needs to work with the administrators to make gold farming as equitable as possible. Grinding for specific stuff Which is really farming part II. Typically divided into two areas. Grinding on items that you need (typically this is for professions) or grinding for items to sell (AKA gold farming). So no point in adding to what has already been said other than the benefits for farming in level appropriate areas. One of the tricks of the trade is to level up two gathering professions (skinning/mining/herbalism) as this maximises your gold return as you level up to 60. With the (presumably) excess cash generated you can then delete one profession at 60 and take the appropriate partner skill like leatherworking/blacksmithing/engineering/alchemy) and just buy the stuff you need. But to develop the 'specific stuff' part of this farming module I'll give you a specific example. It's a little known factoid (the original meaning) that I am the world's greatest expert on Tiny Crimson Whelpling. This si because I've farmed them on pretty much every toon I have ever played past L24. Initially, this was as I really like the idea of vanity pets because clearly, I am vain. The problem is that the drop-rate in 1 in 1000. As there are a limited amount of mobs that can drop this item, you are going to be spending a lot of time before you get it, unless you are lucky. I am happy to announce that the drop-rate on Nostalrius is accurate after it took me 1100 kills for it to drop, this is as a direct contrast to the Hyacinth Macaw which should have an even worse drop-rate but was a dime a dozen on their AH. The key here is parsing this grind/farming in the best context for the player. In farming/grinding this area I went from L22 to L29 as a holy priest paying for all new spells and profession related boosts. It also generated about 26 gold from cash drops and vendoring grey/white items. This doesn't take into account the greens/blues/plans etc that dropped too. Of course, what I should have done was to use a toon that had skinning. Firstly as this would have provided a significant level boost to skinning and secondly, the extra mats would have vastly increased the cash revenue. The element I'm really getting here is the cash reward on the AH for the pet. On a full grown server these should sell for about 100 gold each. On Nost, they were selling between 20 and 50 gold even though the population was quite high. However, this was on the PvE server which was still in the early days of developing. So the options are to keep the pet and show your vanity, or sell the pet as a huge contribution to your mount costs etc. By combining it with leveling the toon, the professions and the cash reward it all makes sense. The timing of course is critical as to what the value is of the drop. So when we talk about grinding for specific stuff you can see that the options and reasoning is hugely varied. I am just advocating that the approach and rationale should make sense both to you and the game. At thsi stage I could go on about the disgusting oozeling pet debuff trick, but that's for another day/life. Raid Grinding I know nothing about this having never raided apart from going back in BC/WotLK format as a 5-man just to see the old content. What I do know is that it's much harder than any of the raiding I did in TBC, by which I mean Karazhan. I don't think that really counts for much. It's harder than retail WoW for the simple reason that the end content requires something like 50-60 dedicated raiders in your hardcore guild. Retail WoW completely bypasses this, perhaps correctly. But it means that when people make comparisons they completely forget how hard it is to keep 50-60 real people happy most of the time. So the grinding doesn't IMHO come from the actual raiding per se, but from the grind to keep the guild intact to finish all the content. Of course, players are more skilled now and there is a repository of info available, but conversely, getting that amount of people together is much harder as time attention spans are so limited these days. Rep Grinding Ugh. This is the worst, and I mean that in every possible way. Rep grinding is an essential part of Vanilla WoW. The easier ones are faction/race based such as getting to exalted for your race as this reduced say. your epic mount costs by a huge whack. Then some people think that they don't like their goat/mechanical chicken/horse mount and want the cool cat one instead. So now they have to go back and 'level' up all again in Elfland to get their rep up to a satisfactory level including all the cloth donations. Peanuts. For some professions it's necessary to get exalted to get those last few precious recipes/patterns or items. Take Timbermaw/Darkmoon Fair/Argent Dawn for example. Even then, it will depend on how the timelines run on the servers as most implement these according to their own agendas and are usually dependent on specific events to occur before being implemented. Then we have raid factions like Hydraxion Warlords necessary for Molton Core and..... Is this the worst? PvP rep grinding. I think someone said to become Grand Marshall/High Overlord you needed to be doing hardcore PvP for about 6 months on a well-developed server...and have a team dedicated to help you out. So yeah, basically APART from the normal grind it takes to get to L60, then max your professions, then farm (aka grind) for your consumables there is still an enormous amount of grinding that can be done, or worse still, has to be done to get places in the game that you want to go to. It takes a *special* person to achieve all this, or an idiot, or perhaps both. Level Weapon skills So this is what happens when a fantastic epic drop comes to you either by complete accident or a designated drop. This weapon is just so much better than anything you have ever had that you really should be using it, except you never did level up dagger/swords/TH maces etc so off you go back to basic land and beat up a huge amount of low-level vermin to get you back up to speed until of course the next *different* weapon drops.... *So there it is my 'outstanding' guide to grinding with my own personal flavour which I reserve the right to edit and/or change my mind based on the comments that follow. In truth I am a very good farmer, having that ability to just switch off for days doing rinse and repeat with getting bored = I am a mindless zombie. In my forthcoming iteration I intend to explore more of the raiding elements.
  22. Ah, they have 2.0 working now.....
  23. :Bloo:
  24. I see what you did there
  25. Evening. So this is the last of the info gathering I'll be doing for a while. We're happy with the current state of the FAQ. We've recorded your feedback on what you would like to see on the promo videos on mechanics. So the last part of the puzzle is that we might consider doing a Q&A video with the likes of Asura, Crogge and Darkrasp. That being the case, could you post below one question only that you would like them to answer, it can be as detailed as you like. This is not guaranteed, we're just looking at options presently and listening to you.