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Taladril

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About Taladril

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  1. My point of linking that is the experiments that were being conducted to generate stat weights. The top comment is only a rough summary from one person. The most useful information is from the user Keftenk.
  2. @Lufhtrae I hope you noticed this link: https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638 If you are working on moonkin stuff then there's a lot of information in there. Even if it might not be right the discussion was well worth reading.
  3. Very true to all. My post is definitely an assumption but I see the OP and see a heck of a lot of gear that is listed. When I first started working on the list I did as much searching as I could and only got limited lists here or there and those that I did find also didn't even link to vanilla db. So there was a lot of copying but also a lot of reprocessing and relinking that I had to do. The point of it is the OPs list is manually put in the forum and would have taken a long time to do. I would be surprised if he/she did it just by doing random searching or manually looking at old lists since by doing so my list would come up easily. It's been out for a year and a half. If I did it (and I did) I start by searching far and wide for the best and easiest data possible before trying to reinvent the wheel. https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=18336 and https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/22777-complete-druid-bis-list-for-resto-bear-and-cat/ track the progression of what's gone into it if you are curious. TLDR is the list is 1.12 itemization and it's a guideline, not something set in stone so you can interpret it as you will. However the values are based on what is out there in the community. Are the values perfect? Probably not. But from experience I can tell you it's better than a rough guess. They are pretty much right.
  4. Unfortunately I'm not planning on sticking around because I don't have time to fully invest in another vanilla project. I also don't like the PTE plans as I don't care for TBC and like the idea of actually having completeness. I know that's counter to MMO but vanilla servers can actually provide it. For druids that look to go down a feral path I think my approach worked well so I'll share it, though I know some people prefer to be feral all the time, as a druid it is good to embrace the resto too. I started out dungeoning and raiding as a 0/30/21 spec and would do whatever role was needed for the dungeon. Often that was tanking though sometimes it was healing too. Between those I was able to gather up all the healing and tanking gear I needed for preraid bis. In raids I was always healing but it didn't take terribly long for tanking pieces to start trickling my way since you aren't running a lot of tanks. With that I was able to get MC and most of BWL quality items. Also at the same time I did BGs to get my rep up to gather the BIS rep items as well as rank 8 4pc. Once I was able to get my hands on boots of the shadow flame I knew I finally had a decent amount of +hit to jump into doing feral full time. So at that point I was playing the 4th tank effectively as I'd jump in to tank adds for razer and nef and also did spellbinder tanking (easy mode with druids!). After the reset I switched guilds and now am running as the full time 3rd tank and dps a bit of MC and BWL. Jumping into feral immediately would work I'm sure but by being resto for a bit allowed me to flesh out my resto set nicely so that transitioning back to resto in Naxx will be seamless since to me I don't think that ferals are optimal enough to exist in that environment. They may be good enough if you continue to run as a tank, but I am expecting that our kitty dps is going to lag significantly at that point. Why? We get a lot of AP increases from many upgrades in AQ. Naxx has only 5 upgrades for any ferals total and that includes atiesh. Everyone else is giddy getting bis this and bis that. Ferals get better pants, a couple rings and a trinket, cause you ain't getting atiesh. So @Elicas about your gear upgrades through expansion... I'm not sure about how crestfall is doing it if they are going the Kronos methodology or the Nost one. I think it's going to be closer to nost. If so your list has a lot of inaccuracies. I'll go down the line and note that this is from memory so I may be off here or there. Bear: Golden mantle of the dawn pattern doesn't come out initially. Not sure when it is but it's very late. AB shoulders are available before them. BIS legs initially is warstrife legs in brd Ash covered boots aren't in the game initially. it's a few patches in before they drop from archivist. Naglering is junk stats for ferals initially. By the time the stats are upgraded you should already have dark iron ring or other better upgrades Feral idols release with 1.10. You won't see them for a long time. Kitty: Mark of fordring - I'd list this as a danger object. Getting the darkmoon neck is better and only costs money. Fordrings seal is a very good healer ring that is hard to replace especially if you're waiting for all your healers to get caut band and elementium. I know you mention it but blackhand's breadth is another danger object. Choose it or Mark of tyranny. Your list could reflect that better. Other: Check your 1.3.0 section and warden staff line. Think that's a typo MC drops needs medallion of steadfast might and fireproof cloak (the true bis fr resist cloak) Ony drops head is very good neck for cat and bear fr set BWL drops need archimtiros' ring for bear and nef head for bear neck or kitty ring and of course dft for bear and cat ZG for bear upgrade is blooddrenched leggings
  5. Hmm credit where credit is due pls. Complete druid bis list
  6. Alright I felt like I finally needed to respond to this topic specifically just so that the community can get a second opinion. In general great guide so I want to start with that. However the talent specs I strongly disagree with. There is far too much emphasis on feral utility for 5 mans, or at least that's what I gather from your replies to some people. That's fine and something people can understand. However the true test of hybrids and their viability and role is in the raiding environment. That should be the spec to look at and aspire to. I can limp my way through any 5 man in any junk spec. Being optimized there is pointless. And for raids as a feral you better be optimized because we are hybrids and we need to prove our worth constantly because there are plenty of pure classes that can overshadow us easily at any time. Qualifications: I made this spreadsheet (disclamer that the cat and tank values are taken from vanilla sources). I am currently the guild 3rd tank and have been very successful tanking every single boss in the game except for Chromag (simply because of optimization we haven't bothered). My tanking experience is not theoretical for how druids perform; with proper gear druids do just fine as offtanks. My guild has no plans on replacing my role for the AQ content either and I don't expect to have problems there. Now to talk about specs I will list my opinion on the same roles you have laid out. Pure DPS (including powershifting) This build is where you want to do only dps and pick every single dps talent you can have. I do wrath spam on ony phase 2 though it probably doesn't help much. You absolutely must have faerie fire. This debuff is critical and not taking it is crazy for ferals who are trying to justify a raid spot. Pure Tanking This build is for druids who always are tanking and it limits cat dps options. For that it's probably not ideal because you'd need to be a raid 2nd tank to not be dpsing somewhere. Compared to your tank build: In a raid as a tank you will never cast insect swarms. You also don't have omen of clarity or natural weapons which is a loss of over 10% threat right off the top. Believe me at the end of bwl itemization with no AQ mace you'll be begging for more tps. Not having thick hide is skipping the second most important talent for druid survivability (next to hotw). Lastly demoralizing roar you may use in raids but only if you're doing your own thing with adds. It is less ap debuff than warrior so you are lowest on the list to use this. This generally should not be cast. DPS/Tanking Hybrid (including powershifting) This build is great for if you want to do a lot of tanking but also want to do a lot of dps. It doesn't sacrifice much for either. The only dps talent you are missing is stronger ferocious bites which isn't a huge percent of dps output. Tanking/DPS Hybrid (less powershifting) This build is far more tank focused. Powershifting can happen but without natural shapeshifting you will oom quick so stick to using it in conjunction with fast fights and rune of metamorphosis. Or just plan on using a lot of crowd pummeler if you want a dps boost. This is the build that I'm currently running. Tanking/Healing Hybrid This build misses many critical dps talents. It doesn't put up good dps numbers so don't try to work around that. However, it can do no compromise tanking and decent healing. Depending on if you expect to tank more or heal more use your last talent point to fit that need. Healing/Tanking Hybrid This build is more healing focused. It compromises little on the healing side while only compromising health pool on the tank side. If your tank gear is good enough then you can pull this build off and still generally be able to tank most anything in the game, however you wouldn't want to be a dedicated tank anymore. This would be for if you want to tank 5 mans and heal raids and still be an available backup tank. I'm planning on running this build for Naxx. General thoughts: Why do I almost never put points into primal fury? Because once in the fight I am rarely rage starved. Points can best be used for other threat maxing talents. Bash is a pvp talent ONLY. Read the talent carefully. It increases duration by a second for 2 talent points. If it decreased cooldown it would be far nicer for pve. Even in 5 mans you use bash as an interrupt. It doesn't matter if that interrupt lasts an extra second. Save your points for something else unless you want to use this for pvp. Important things to keep in mind: Powershifting and all relevant druid buffs are critical for cat dps (faerie fire, leader of the pack). Survivability and threat are critical for bear. Bears get threat from doing damage so any raw damage increase is a direct boost to bear threat. I hope this helped some aspiring feral druids. It's fun to be a bit unique in a raiding guild and the melee in your group will love you. It's hard because getting the gear can sometimes be frustrating but if you put in the effort you can succeed.