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Search the Community: Showing results for tags 'honorgrind'.
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!This will be a lengthy post! To get this can of worms open here as well, I'll lead the charge so we can have this discussion now, not when the server is live and the system is already implemented (I'm sure we will have it again and again even after, this is just a preventative measure to get some of the shit out of the way). Vanilla 'blizzlike', which is a very loose term nowadays (and personally I don't like the use of it since everyone has their individual opinion of what it should be based on their experiences 10 years ago), battleground queue system is a cause of massive controversy on the two latest private servers (of any significance) to come out, K-project and Nost respectively. It usually causes a huge divide in the population/community and their opinion on how it should be implemented; leading to flame wars and lengthy forum posts on their respective forums. The system Blizzard came up with is the following: You can queue up for a battleground(s), either solo or as a group of up to 15 people, keep in mind, going past 10 will limit you to playing Arathi Basin. (AV and addon shenanigans I'll touch on later). And you can swap between the battlegrounds if another one you're queued up for happens to open. If you're in WSG and an AB opens, you can leave WSG to join AB mid-game. You'll also get the deserter debuff (15 minutes) for not participating to the fight for long enough for AFK-tag to trigger and get sent out of the BG. As for the timeline; pre-1.9.0 (AQ) you could only queue up for one battleground at a time, when the patch hit you could queue up for multiple as explained above. Arathi Basin was released in 1.7.0, WSG and AV were open from patch 1.5. I'll refer to the system explained above as Blizzlike+multiqueue (or without), with all the private server projects there have been multiple iterations of the system to suit each project's needs. I'm purposefully leaving Feenix out of the discussion since they had their own custom honor system due to the lack of players (excluding Emerald Dream I think they had a regular system). Nostalrius launched with Blizzlike+multiqueue resulting in lots of queue abuse by premades dodging battlegrounds/games they had low chance of winning or the win would be slower than a PUG-game, now I'm sure we all can agree that this is unhealthy for everyone; PUG-players get demoralized after meeting the same players over and over, getting stomped whereas the premades don't actually face that much real pvp. So the solution was to remove multiqueue but people continued to dodge, either by dropping queues or scouting the enemy faction on an alt. Next solution they came up with was a priority queue for groups queuing as a raid, how it would work is premades that queue up would be put into a separate pool for x amount of time (never confirmed, 5-10 minutes would be my guess) where the system would search for an opponent that is also a premade. IF the system couldn't find a premade to face, they'd be put in the PUG-queue and face a PUG-game after waiting for the 5 minutes to be up; Premades would fight premades, fair enough. But people being ingenious/scummy enough they quickly realized this queue system was far more abusable than any of the other ones before. With the knowledge that the opposing team would always be a premade, they could open games for each other or at least make sure they don't have to face the strongest premade available by popping a game open for them so the opposing premade will be occupied for a while (games that were opened were pretty much always PUG-games), and thus making the chances of getting a PUG game much higher for the premade that dodged. This quickly deteriorated to an era of about 8 months where competitive pvp between 'rankers' was pretty much dead, some exceptions included. - In my personal opinion this queue change also contributed massively to the Chinese industry that formed on Nostalrius, ranking characters, 'wintrading' (opening games for themselves with alt accounts) and all the other things that followed. This queue system was reverted to a 'blizzlike-no multiqueue' -queue system a few months before the server was shut down but the damage was already done. As for Kronos, they are currently suffering similar issues with Alterac Valley 40man premade queueing with an addon being removed as an option and making changes to the honor amounts gained from killing lieutenants. Their pvp forums are full of topics regarding the 'issue' and I won't make this post any longer by paraphrasing whats in them. As for my personal opinions for the healthiest possible pvp community, some non-'Blizzlike' changes should be considered; 1. Deserter debuff (possibly longer than 15 minutes) on dropping queue, as in not joining the game when a game is opened, surely if you queued up to play a battleground you had the intention of joining the game and finishing it too and can wait the 15 minutes to queue again if you don't want to join the open game. 2. No multiqueue which allows you to join a new game from a game that is already open(WSG-->AB e.g.), never to be implemented since it will most likely lead to abuse. I'd like to hear the community's opinions on how the queue and pvp system should be handled, also developer input so once again @Darkrasp, @Asura pls help. Post your opinions but refrain from the insults (most of the threads about this topic devolve into flame fests); if you really have to use the word cuck or autist to drive your point through I'll just ridicule you and ignore your (possibly - not likely) constructive post. tldr; just read the post, if really lazy read from about halfway through to the end.