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quentinv

I missed the devs' response to the "endless progression" argument, please repeat it

We've all seen the vanilla-haters trot out this argument: the Crestfall player base will eventually progress through all of the Vanilla raid content and PvP progression and then start demanding that Crestfall upgrade to TBC. Eventually the same thing will happen to TBC, and Crestfall will have to upgrade to WotLK. At the same time, latecoming players will demand a brand new Vanilla server until they can catch up to the TBC/WotLK people. The argument is that this creates a kind of infinite regression in which you end up with a whole bunch of Legion servers that all started off as Vanilla servers.

I'm not sure I buy that argument, but I'd like to see the Crestfall devs' response to it.

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Simply put, when we upgrade to TBC, we will leave a Vanilla realm active, but it will remain in a fully-patched state.

Though future circumstances may cause us to reconsider, it is not currently our intention to start/restart additional Vanilla realms for any reason other than population balancing.

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@quentinv + population will have a say. The previous expectation was that the PvP realm would have enough players on it to spilt the realm. So people would progress to a new PvP TBC realm should they wish to do so, and the others can remain on the end game PvP vanilla version.

On the other hand, the PvE realm which is expected to have lower numbers would progress through to TBC with no option to remain, behind bar a potential transfer to the PvP vanilla realm. Simple because splitting the population might make the PvE realms unviable.

While there's is not much point in discussing this now, it's reasonable to have this caveat out there for realm choice. A surprisingly small percentage of people have indicated they would not want to progress to TBC, like 7% or so. 

Much to ponder

 

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6 hours ago, Outstanding said:

<snip>A surprisingly small percentage of people have indicated they would not want to progress to TBC, like 7% or so. 

Much to ponder

 

I think the "will play both" option wasn't very well (re)presented on polls. I mean I do aim to play BC when it releases, but I will probably still play my 60 chars from time to time.

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I'm still not clear what will happen when the core group of players has progressed through all of the TBC content and starts demanding a WotLK server. Will there be three kinds of servers on Crestfall then, Vanilla and TBC and Wotlk? Down the road will we have servers not only for Vanilla but for every expansion, including Legion? That sounds like it'll be a very cumbersome operation and hard to manage without a large team and significant financing.

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13 minutes ago, quentinv said:

I'm still not clear what will happen when the core group of players has progressed through all of the TBC content and starts demanding a WotLK server. Will there be three kinds of servers on Crestfall then, Vanilla and TBC and Wotlk? Down the road will we have servers not only for Vanilla but for every expansion, including Legion? That sounds like it'll be a very cumbersome operation and hard to manage without a large team and significant financing.

From what I've gathered it will be pretty much entirely based on population. Let's take PvE....

After Kel'Thuzad is downed we might have a period of 4 months before TBC is launched. This is to allow players and guilds a chance to finish off Naxx content before progression.

If the server population at this stage is <2500 for example, then the chances are the realm and all the accounts will convert to TBC with no vanilla realm left behind.

Once TBC is cleared, we reach the same checklist, and the same thing will happen again unless the population is sufficiently large enough to warrant both a TBC and WotLK realm. Rinse and repeat. The interesting part is that the later the expansion, the greater the chance that sufficient numbers won't go through. So in my opinion, the vast majority will go on to TBC. A very large number will go to WotLK and a moderate number will go to Cata. Sooner or later, unless there is a constant infusion of fresh blood the numbers will run out as people won't want to progress any further.

The thinking on the PvP realm is that the numbers will be sufficient to warrant splitting the realms. So the vanilla one will stay behind in its end game progression and a new one with TBC will be launched. Players will be given an option to remain behind as long as they like before progressing to TBC. Same for TBC -> WotLK although the same issues outlined above on the PvE realm will become a factor.

In short, population is king. There will be as many different realms using as many different expansions as long as the perceived need and numbers for them is there. Population should also help contribute to the costs assuming people are prepared to donate (don't get me started on that one)  

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The thing is that cata and beyond are not bad expansions, they are just too easy but with proper tuning they can be fun and challenging aswell

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Well, Cata was fine until LFR. DS was still challenging but LFR is what killed WoW.

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On 12/11/2016 at 1:26 PM, jonu said:

Well, Cata was fine until LFR. DS was still challenging but LFR is what killed WoW.

Couldn't agree more !

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Personally I'd stop at the end of wotlk, never really got into cataclysm.

Also wondering, is it easy to recognize feats of strength that you did in vanilla wow to be crossed over into 3.3.5? 

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I think I have a couple on my retail char that you couldn't get later, like tabard of the protector from BC portal opening and another one that escapes me.

Some of the early pvp titles too I think but I didn't have one of those so can't check.

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@quentinv

PvP Server:  There will be one eternal Vanilla realm, and there will be one PTE realm that progresses through expansions.

PvE Server: There will be one PTE realm that progresses through expansions.

**As @Outstanding mentioned, population can have a factor on the decision or changes to this model.

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2 bits: I see the progression steady from Vanilla => BC => WotLK ... I see these as the glory days ... Keepin' end game content the right level of difficulty (challenge) is what draws a lot of 'nostalgia' players

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On 11.11.2016 at 5:51 AM, Darkrasp said:

Simply put, when we upgrade to TBC, we will leave a Vanilla realm active, but it will remain in a fully-patched state.

Though future circumstances may cause us to reconsider, it is not currently our intention to start/restart additional Vanilla realms for any reason other than population balancing.

I'm gonna play on the PvE realm and I'm totally fine with progressing through expansions without going back. But I think it would be a good idea to take an image/backup (or whatever it is called) of the game's state in each patch so that you guys can repeat the whole progression in the future if the demand arises and you choose to go with it. The idea has already crossed your mind probably, but I wanted to point it out in case it hasn't.

Edited by Quantus
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