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Throktar

[1.12.1] Triface's Guide to Threat and Tanking in Vanilla

29 posts in this topic

Additional to the info posted here and because it just got stickied I want to mention Daaki's True Guide to Vanilla Tanking

Taken from the guide is this table of threat values

Sunder: 260
Revenge: 315 (if the revenge stun procs, adds 25 more threat value)
Shield Bash: 180 (if interrupted a cast, adds 50 more threat value)
Shield Slam: 307 (increases with Block Value)
Shield Block: 0,5,10 (if each successful block generates 1 rage from talents, each rage point will generate 5 threat)
Thunder Clap: 130 (not usable in Defensive Stance, has a 0.8% threat modifier)
Demo/Battle Shout: 43/55 (43 applied to each mob for demo, 55 multiplied by each party member buffed for battle)
Cleave: 130 (this is split equally if hitting two mobs, so each one gets 65)
Heroic Strike: 196

 

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1 Person mentioned if CC is needed to pull with that then BS.

You should have your CCer aware of their job and still pull with your gun/bow, and they should start casting right after they see you take aim, they will CC right after you shoot still allowing you to have initial aggro.  A hunter should be standing off-set to the rest of the group, after a pull he should aggro shot his assigned CC target to the trap to avoid it being brought into the group at all so it doesn't get broken from dps splash damage, or a bad tab-targeter

Intimidating shout is a terrible move at the start of a pull unless it is to assist with a multi pack by mistake.  Reason being is the mobs will spread out, and when the fear breaks, the healer is going to get aggro on all those mobs and run right for them.  You run the risk of killing your healer.  If you HAVE to use it, you should be prepared to position yourself close to your healer and challenging shout when they get close to the healer.    Also this "Guide" talks of 5 mans, no reason to counter it with raid talk.  It is a different animal.

In regards to Battleshout spam, when doing this for aoe threat, it is only going to work if your group is within range of your buff.  Make sure in these instances that you stay close to your ranged dps and healer, and call them out if they keep running away when there is no splash damage to account for.

Some bosses, Thunderclap is still really good regardless of your gear level, such as Nef, Chromag, Broodlorde, Twin Emps (Be aware of adds before using this).  Demo shout is also great.  A high attendance off tank should have 3/5 imp demo specced to reduce boss AP to 0, or 5/5 if you have a lock using Curse of Wrecklessness for more DPS.

In 5 mans, I use both IF I already have control of the pull.  No reason to SPAM TPS moves when I am not gonna lose the mob before it dies, I rather than focus on lowering my damage intake which will keep the healer mana higher, which means a faster run due to less drinking.

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On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 7:39 PM, Throktar said:

Your average rotation will look something like this: Pull ---> Bloodrage ---> Shield Block ---> Revenge main target ---> Sunder Armor main target x1-2 ---> Battle Shout x1-2 ---> Sunder Armor adds one at a time, switching to Revenge main target whenever it's up, with extra Sunder Armor on the main target as needed. There will be deviations depending on the situation of course; for example if you need to gather up caster mobs with Shield Bash, but this is the general order you want to go with.

Why would you use Battle Shout that late in an opening rotation? The best option is to do this: Pull, Bloodrage, Battle Shout x1-2 then proceed with your single target rotation hitting your primary target (skull) first and then tab every other elite and then hit the skull twice and tab around again. You count shield slam as 2 hits in this case. The single target rotation is Revenge (not using shield block to proc) -> Shield Slam -> Revenge (using shield block to proc) -> Sunder Armor -> Heroic Strike/Cleave (if for whatever reason you have more rage than you can spend without).

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Posted (edited)

Had a couple questions if anyone happens to know the answer.  1st, it seems like battle shout and demo shout threat generation only depend on rank and the stance you are in.  Is that right? If you put points into improved demo or battle shout, is the threat generated still the same as the trained rank of the spell you have (say trained rank 5) or does it increase in a proportional amount (or any amount) to it's actual effect?  For example, Demo shout does 43 threat per target affected by it at it's highest trained rank in vanilla, but does taking all 5 talent points (40% increase in debuff it creates) increase the threat generated by the same (or some) amount, 40% in that case for a total threat of (43 x 1.4) 60.2?  Same question for battle shout and the talent point bonus it provides.  I haven't seen anyone anywhere talk about it so my gut says only the rank of the spell matters as I have seen it referenced that rank 6 BS generates more threat than rank 5, but nobody has said whether or not the actual benefit amount it provides when comparing between talented and untalented shouts makes a difference.

 

2nd question, when casting battle shout for the threat, do the party members affected by it have to have been active in combat in some fashion or just the fact that they got buffed counts?  For example, let's say the beginning of an encounter starts like this......I pull with bow -->Bloodrage -->BS all party members.  In that scenario, no other party member has made any sort of threat generating action (heal, attack, buff, etc) or have gotten in range of the mobs "sight" that would make the mobs aware of them and have them on their threat list.  Do the mobs recognize they exist yet if they hadn't gotten within aggro range of them? Does simply being in the same party as the person who generated the initial threat enough to put them in the aggro list?  In other words, do you have to wait to cast BS until either a) party members generate threat of their own, or b) they get within aggro range that the mob now "sees" them and registers their actions? Or is just being in the group enough to put other party members in sight of the mobs?   Thanks to anyone who may know the answer! 

 

An easy way to test this would be to simply have a 2nd warrior in the group.  Have warrior 2 bloodrage before the pull and finish his rage gain so no longer in combat.  Have warrior 1 make the pull and then have warrior 2 cast battle shout but WITHOUT hitting the warrior who made the pull since he is the only one who has been "seen" by the mobs. The shout would have to hit at least one other party member who hasn't made any actions that would have made the mobs aware of him including being in aggro range.  If he doesn't get any aggro then that would mean that the 55 threat per member affected only counts on party members who have made some sort of threat generating action or be in range of mobs to "see" them.

Edited by Veritch
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