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Darkrasp

Darkrasp's Update 12/5/2016

30 posts in this topic
5 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

There are certainly some other modifiers beyond the relatively simple formula that I was able to derive (I suspect based on item type).  I had a few small anomalies, but these seemed to have a very slight overall effect, and I couldn't find any easy way of figuring out the direct cause.  Occasionally a weapon existed that was just better than it's contemporaries for no discernible reason other than perhaps the difficulty of acquiring it.

I can imagine. I aways was interested in the way blizzard came up with all those item values and how they were balancing them out. Take Blackstone Ring and Painweaver Band for example. Their stats are almost the same except one has +1% meleehit and the other +1% meleecrit. Their item level is 9 levels apart though. I always thought that Blackstone Ring seems to be really powerful for its level or they weighted meleehit way less than meleecrit which I can't really imagine.

Blackstone Ring.png

Painweaver Band.png

Perhaps Blizzard in some cases has not been strict about their own itemization formulas. That could explain the two versions of Fist of Stone for example. The one with Spirit and Stamina was replaced in a later patch by the one without those stats. Their item level and everything else stayed the same.

Fist of Stone old.png

Fist of Stone new.png

That is one thing I like about vanilla though. The way items were designed did not feel as calculated as it did with later expansions.

 

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5 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

@fruitsalad There is an *almost* exact formulation for the point value of stats.  I don't want to give away exact details on how it works, but suffice to say that the number of stats (talking specifically about STR, INT, SPI, etc.) on an item is relevant.  There is a multiplier to value based on the number of unique stats.  Single stat items are weighted more heavily than two-stat items, etc., however it does appear that all stats are weighted equally against each other.  One point of strength does have the same value as one point of intellect, they're just useful to different classes.  As far as I can tell, that's intentional.

There is also an *almost* exact formulation for the point value of 1% crit, 1 AP, 1 SP, etc.  1% crit has a much higher point value than 1 stat, so it follows that it won't start showing up on items until they are high enough level that they have the stat budget points available to afford it.

Item quality plays a role in how many points are available, but not the value of those points in terms of "purchasing power" of stats etc.

There are certainly some other modifiers beyond the relatively simple formula that I was able to derive (I suspect based on item type).  I had a few small anomalies, but these seemed to have a very slight overall effect, and I couldn't find any easy way of figuring out the direct cause.  Occasionally a weapon existed that was just better than it's contemporaries for no discernible reason other than perhaps the difficulty of acquiring it.

Things get hazy when you have to look at unique effects like that set bonus, "Decreases rage cost of all Warrior Shouts by 35%".. something like that is very difficult to estimate a stat- or dps-equivalent value for.  If it was on a single item, you could (and I did for some procs) figure out what Blizzard thought it was worth by reversing the formula and comparing it to a same-level-and-type item.  However many points that proc takes the place of can be directly converted into "expected dps".  However, being that it is a set bonus and not tied to an item, it gets to be nearly impossible to do for lack of adequate comparisons.

As well, Another thing to look at is the Strength of each individual Stat on the item.  If you look, Items with one stat being especially high to another stat, will have less overall stats than the item that is perfectly split down the middle.   I believe that the higher the total stat block of each individual stat, the most expensive it is for the next point.

 

I.E. the fact that 1 str = 1 int is true.  However, an Item with 10 str, raising its cost by one costs MORE than raising an item with 2 str to 3 in the formula.  In addition, they have stat variation between items, in which a higher IL item will have lower stats than a lower one despite seeming like it will be higher.   Usually these better than their IL items are often from quests or a final boss.

Edited by spazyspaz
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3 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

That could explain the two versions of Fist of Stone for example. The one with Spirit and Stamina was replaced in a later patch by the one without those stats. Their item level and everything else stayed the same.

Another way to balance that would be to increase the frequency of the proc, but in this case, you're correct, as far as I can tell.  Blizzard did occasionally stray from their formula for reasons beyond my understanding.

 

3 hours ago, spazyspaz said:

I.E. the fact that 1 str = 1 int is true.  However, an Item with 10 str, raising its cost by one costs MORE than raising an item with 2 str to 3 in the formula.  

Yes and no.. Raising an item from 10 STR to 11 STR does cost the same as raising an item from 2 STR to 3 STR. 

However, raising an item from 10 STR to 11 STR  costs a lot more than taking an item with 10 STR and adding 1 AGI.

From what I could derive, all stat increases are a flat cost per stat with an overall multiplier based on total number of different stats.  Splitting points between multiple kinds of stats has a lower overall cost multiplier than attempting to maximize just one.  It does get very confusing when you have 3-5 stats on an item though, I'll grant that.  Going from 2 stats to 5 stats has far less of an effect on the multiplier than going from 1 to 2 does.  Don't ask me why.

Edited by Darkrasp
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11 minutes ago, Johnnyshaun said:

Darkrasp's Update 12/12/2016 ? :ph34r:

This update said that updates are now biweekly. The next one will be on the 19th.

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