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Outstanding

Assisting class Beta testers

So this is just a suggestion. @Elicas has already made a few threads in the hybrid forums for people to do research on commonly found class bugs on other realms. What I am suggesting is that we expand upon this for the Beta testers at the end of December. We know that the first Beta testers will be recruited to test their chosen specialist class back and forwards for realm server tests, the inference being that they have the knowledge and the time to ensure the class is as close to retail vanilla as feasible.

What I feel would be a good idea is that the class leader posts on the class forum with a ''to do'' template and asks for volunteers. Now this won't mean CF realm testing but it could mean (for example) going on to another private server and spamming windfury totem and observing effects in the combat logs. Then repeat the process on other servers. It might mean trawling through wayback machine and digging up articles on sentry totem for example. It could mean trying to find chain heal mechanics on vanilla retail videos.

Basically, by helping the class leader get their facts right you are ensuring you get the closest possible experience to retail. I don't see the harm in doing this, I see only positives. Amongst getting the functionality right the other benefits could be to speed up the closed Beta process, as well as increasing your rep with the staff and therefore potentially increasing your chances of getting into Beta at a later stage.

However, as each class leader is likely to operate under their own modus operandi, I think its only fair that they, and they alone, put the request in for assistance should they wish to do so.

    

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its a good idea nonetheless,

would need @Darkrasp's opinion on it, but I think we got it covered for the most part. most of the alpha team and Beta selects know quite a bit about all the classes to get them up to speed.

as usual, if we usually have questions, hang out in CF public discord and we usually chat about things like that from time to time or if needed by the community.

i don't see this being a bad thing during OPEN beta after everything has been scrubbed and people can start seeing things for themselves. but that's not up to me. :)

Edited by imbaslap
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I think this would be very helpful but I have to make one note:

 

While mentioning bugs that other private servers have is a good start, I don't think that it should be the focus. Many bugs on other private servers come from a bad core (mangos), bad implementation or neglectence. Not because the information isn't available. I'll give an example: Mentioning that Windfurry is bugged on Nostalrius would do no good for Crestfall because it's obvious how it should work, Windfury should work as it is described in the spell discription and in the talents and nothing more. It's the most obvious spell yet it gets a lot of attention. But giving it a lot of attention in a thread like this will not help the Beta Testers nor the Developers because everybody is already aware how that brain dead spell works.

 

Instead I think we should focus on spells with complex mechanics. They should to be researched and described in detail so that developers can implement them well. An example is Chain Heal for Shaman. The spell itself raises multiple questions: 1: How does each jump get resolved? At once or per jump? 2: How is it decided what target it jumps to? 3: How does set 3 from tier 2 effect Chain Heal exactly? 4: What is the exact formula behind Chain Heal? Etc.


If we can find all data about all complex spells and how they interact with each set bonus then we can truly help the developers. Simply mentioning that ability X and Y are bugged on server Z while it's obvious how these spells should work *cough windfury* isn't actually going to help the developers or beta testers.

Edited by RipTonight
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Didn't chain heal prioritize the most wounded individual after each jump and then do a reduced amount on each jump ( not sure on the % , but didn't each jump have its own chance to crit as well?) Also, I am pretty sure the target of the jump had to be within range of the target of the spell and subsequently the second target of the jump. I'm going my memory here so don't quote me on this.

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2 minutes ago, Bluemoon said:

Does this not violate the non-disclosure agreement?

This. My understanding was that there would be a hidden sub-thread for closed beta testers to discuss bugs and suggestions 

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I think this is just about patience until we can play

Edited by Brikot
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24 minutes ago, Bluemoon said:

Does this not violate the non-disclosure agreement?

assume it does, unless otherwise stated by a staff member.

come open beta though, im sure everyone will be free to see what was done.

(ask a staff member beforehand to be sure)

Edited by imbaslap
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33 minutes ago, Statin said:

Didn't chain heal prioritize the most wounded individual after each jump and then do a reduced amount on each jump ( not sure on the % , but didn't each jump have its own chance to crit as well?) Also, I am pretty sure the target of the jump had to be within range of the target of the spell and subsequently the second target of the jump. I'm going my memory here so don't quote me on this.

chain heal alone can go on for hours worth of discussion as many things changed.

best bet to look is early TBC and late vanilla to narrow what got changed with targeting, then move onto videos. i'm sure you'll find it. :)

or just hang out in CF public. i remember us talking about that one night.

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27 minutes ago, Bluemoon said:

Does this not violate the non-disclosure agreement?

Not necessarily so. Let's say you are the closed beta tester and you are uncertain how a particular class spell or talent works from what you are seeing on the PTR and what you believe to be the case in retail. 

You can simply ask your scrubs to research this for you on other private servers or scroll through vanilla retail videos. This is purely information gathering, not discussing issues on the PTR.

The information can be parsed through private discord channels to remove it still further from public view.

Seriously guys, there's tons of discussions on this forum, on discord and on reddit that gives information about the server, bugs, fixes and other stuff that are NDA compatible.

Finding that Chain Heal isn't working as intended on CF and getting the correct information from retail is hardly a secret. How the devs script it correctly might be, but none of the beta testers are going to be doing that.

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2 hours ago, Outstanding said:

Not necessarily so. Let's say you are the closed beta tester and you are uncertain how a particular class spell or talent works from what you are seeing on the PTR and what you believe to be the case in retail. 

You can simply ask your scrubs to research this for you on other private servers or scroll through vanilla retail videos. This is purely information gathering, not discussing issues on the PTR.

The information can be parsed through private discord channels to remove it still further from public view.

Seriously guys, there's tons of discussions on this forum, on discord and on reddit that gives information about the server, bugs, fixes and other stuff that are NDA compatible.

Finding that Chain Heal isn't working as intended on CF and getting the correct information from retail is hardly a secret. How the devs script it correctly might be, but none of the beta testers are going to be doing that.

 

I think the difference now is that all the information that's being disclosed is done so under the discretion of the people who are in charge, and has also been deemed appropriate for public eyes. Class leaders doing this seems like an over-reach of authority. Also, going through the proper channels of determining if every small thing is appropriate for public disclosure seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth.

Edited by Bluemoon
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43 minutes ago, Bluemoon said:

 

I think the difference now is that all the information that's being disclosed is done so under the discretion of the people who are in charge and has been deemed appropriate for public eyes. Class leaders doing this seems like an over-reach of authority. Also, going through the proper channels of determining if every small thing is appropriate for public disclosure seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth.

I stand by what I said. Discussing what is working correctly in retail vanilla in no way can be construed as being confidential to Crestfall. An NDA is not an impediment to discretion and common sense.

I would have thought the whole holy resistance epic saga is a prime example of what happens when you expand the conversation from a closed mind to a group of open ones.

Yes, it's more likely relevant that this is a topic for open beta, but my point is a simple one. Spreading the load of gathering information on specific classes from retail to a bunch of willing scrubs cannot be anything other than a help to class leaders and potentially speed up the transition to open beta.

 

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