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Vengyr

Quest item respawns

63 posts in this topic

Greetings. So, as some there, I've tried Elysium so that I have some actual Vanilla experience and not just memories. One of my biggest concerns there is a respawn timer on a pickable quest items. It makes it so that some quests are barely possible to do, with 20+ players camping the quest item respawn.

So my suggestion is to make quest items respawn like really, really fast. In 1-2 seconds or so. It might be not very blizzlike - but that's just dumb that you have to play a clicker and not wow for hours, and keep in mind retail had smaller populations so that was not that much of a issue.

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That's actually a really good idea. It would also be really nice if they made it so that quest NPCs spawn multiple times so you'd have 10 Hoggers all at once!

(all of the above is sarcasm)

I personally think having to wait for quest items and NPCs to respawn is part of the game. The race against other players is another challenge that you'll have to overcome. Yes, the larger than usual population may have an effect on this but I still think the respawn times should be left as they are. If you can't get the items you need you can simply go do something else and come back to try later. I never understood why so many WoW players think they need to do (or rather should be able to do) everything RIGHT NOW. Come back later and try again. Simple.

And in any case making the respawn times 1-2 seconds is ridiculous. I can understand shortening them to an extent but that's just cheesing it hard. 

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Just now, VeloxBanks said:

The race against other players is another challenge that you'll have to overcome

So playing clicker for a several hours is a challenge? I thought challenge is in taking down tough mobs, not in spamming right click and hoping for smaller ping than others.

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1 minute ago, Vengyr said:

So playing clicker for a several hours is a challenge?

Have you read the rest of @VeloxBanks post? He literally follows it by saying that there are other things to do, for example and I quote your post "taking down tough mobs". Moreover, as stated by @imbaslap, current population on elysium is 11586. I am wondering where does this problem come from... :thinking:

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2 minutes ago, Vengyr said:

So playing clicker for a several hours is a challenge? I thought challenge is in taking down tough mobs, not in spamming right click and hoping for smaller ping than others.

So it's better to make the respawn times instant? Why not just get the XP instantly after accepting the quest? No, it's not the same kind of challenge as taking down tough mobs. Never said it is. But it's something you have to overcome. Or maybe not. Maybe those quests aren't for you. Nobody ever said you need to be able to do every single quest. You might not be able to do it on the first try or you might not be able to do it at all. 

I don't know, man. I never had such a big problem with this stuff even back on Nost when these quests had 10+ people running around in the same area. I usually managed to do it within 30 minutes tops. As I said, I also had to put it off for later a couple of times. And I also had to give up on 2 or 3. Certainly much better than having items respawn after 2 seconds, boi.

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1 minute ago, Mal Do'Urden said:

He literally follows it by saying that there are other things to do

It never changes though, there will always be a huge queue. As if it made any difference.

Just now, VeloxBanks said:

So it's better to make the respawn times instant? Why not just get the XP instantly after accepting the quest? No, it's not the same kind of challenge as taking down tough mobs. Never said it is. But it's something you have to overcome. Or maybe not. Maybe those quests aren't for you. Nobody ever said you need to be able to do every single quest. You might not be able to do it on the first try or you might not be able to do it at all. 

Are you seriously implying that developers INTENDED that quest to be challenging due to other players spamming right click and having less ping/LazyPig for loot box position? You seriously telling me that this is a challenging part? Not really, this is an unintended part of "challenge".

2 minutes ago, VeloxBanks said:

I usually managed to do it within 30 minutes tops. As I said, I also had to put it off for later a couple of times. And I also had to give up on 2 or 3.

Sort of the same. But is that a good gaming experience? Lol. Just because it was so does not mean it is good. Stop overglorifying the non-perfect game.

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Just now, Smirre said:

Something that you consider "unintended" might be to most of us enthusiasts part of the vanilla experience itself.

Duh. Never thought Vanilla fans like clicker games.

1 minute ago, Smirre said:

mobs spam every 1 - 2 sec, not even retail has a spawn rate like that i guess

Tagging mobs is whole different story.

It is not mobs, it is pickable quest items... And even some private servers handle those instantly, because, well, that's just dumb. You can't even group quest normally, you have to wait for everyone to pick that up.

"But hey, that's how vanilla was!" Derp.

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Just now, Vengyr said:

Are you seriously implying that developers INTENDED that quest to be challenging due to other players spamming right click and having less ping/LazyPig for loot box position? You seriously telling me that this is a challenging part? Not really, this is an unintended part of "challenge".

Sort of the same. But is that a good gaming experience? Lol. Just because it was so does not mean it is good. Stop overglorifying the non-perfect game.

You seem to have stuck onto one thing I said. Why avoid everything else you're being told? I told you twice now. If you can't do the quest just go do another one or something else entirely. Whether the whole thing is bad or not doesn't matter. Why? Because as bad as it might be it's certainly better than having the items respawn 

 

32 minutes ago, Vengyr said:

In 1-2 seconds or so.

I personally believe that it's not a problem. Of course, I'm just 

 

4 minutes ago, Vengyr said:

overglorifying the non-perfect game.

or at least so you say because I don't agree with you. 

In any case, I highly doubt this'll be a deal breaker for you. If you're set on playing here a 30 second respawn time on Westfall oats won't change your mind.

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1 minute ago, Vengyr said:

Duh. Never thought Vanilla fans like clicker games.

Tagging mobs is whole different story.

It is not mobs, it is pickable quest items... And even some private servers handle those instantly, because, well, that's just dumb. You can't even group quest normally, you have to wait for everyone to pick that up.

"But hey, that's how vanilla was!" Derp.

At the end of the day, you can't make changes that doesn't rub someone the wrong way, somehow. That's why you shouldn't make changes.

And the arguement that we can't get everything 100% right doesn't justify making more changes.

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So, as always, we kindly suggest that forum members check topic under the search bar menu at the top right corner.

There's already been a lengthy discussion about spawn timers for bottlenecks by @SweN here:

There's a longer and more detailed thread by @Soyoen which even gives a list of the items/quest mobs here:

I don't think the devs have made a formal decision yet

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19 minutes ago, VeloxBanks said:

Why? Because as bad as it might be it's certainly better than having the items respawn 

Why? Just, like, why? Because it was like it? Do you want to have a good game back or you want the game from 2004 back? Or maybe you want 2004 back instead of the game? Wtf?

The challenge of "collect" quests is that you have to kill the mobs on your way. Not to camp the place for hours. That's how the game was designed.

19 minutes ago, Smirre said:

Same with the quest items, the waiting time keeps up competition and makes it more exciting, if you don't agree, there's retail always for you in that case. 

Facepalm.

17 minutes ago, Arrowlink said:

At the end of the day, you can't make changes that doesn't rub someone the wrong way, somehow. That's why you shouldn't make changes.

Honestly I've never thought people find clickers fun. But whatever. Many weird things happen in this world, good to know that's another one.

14 minutes ago, Outstanding said:

So, as always, we kindly suggest that forum members check topic under the search bar menu at the top right corner.

Fair enough. Dunno how I missed that.

Edited by Vengyr
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Just now, Vengyr said:

Honestly I've never thought people find clickers fun. But whatever. Many weird things happen in this world, good to know that's another one.

You probably need to read my post again and make a genuine attempt to understand what i was trying to convey.

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1 minute ago, Arrowlink said:

You probably need to read my post again and make a genuine attempt to understand what i was trying to convey.

I've re-read your post and understand absolutely well that if some part of the game is broken, some people like the brokenness and want it to stay even though it is easy to fix. That's why no changes will be made ever.

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1 minute ago, Vengyr said:

Why? Just, like, why? Because it was like it? Do you want to have a good game back or you want the game from 2004 back? Or maybe you want 2004 back instead of the game? Wtf?

Of course, the "you just want it to be 100% blizzlike" argument. No, I just think it should stay that way because I think it should stay that way. Nothing to do with it being like that in 2004.

2 minutes ago, Vengyr said:

The challenge of "collect" quests is that you have to kill the mobs on your way. Not to camp the place for hours. That's how the game was designed.

Oh sorry, I didn't realize I was talking to an (ex?) Blizzard employee. I find the race for a quest item exciting. I find it fun to have to split my attention between the mob I'm fighting and the player that's headed toward the quest item. I like having to make the decision to either continue fighting the mob or letting myself take a few more (perhaps fatal) hits in order to get to the item first. F*ck me, right?

5 minutes ago, Vengyr said:

Honestly I've never thought people find clickers fun. But whatever. Many weird things happen in this world, good to know that's another one.

We're not pointing fingers at you and calling you weird for wanting instant quest item respawns. We'd appreciate it if you don't do so either.

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1 minute ago, VeloxBanks said:

Oh sorry, I didn't realize I was talking to an (ex?) Blizzard employee. I find the race for a quest item exciting. I find it fun to have to split my attention between the mob I'm fighting and the player that's headed toward the quest item. I like having to make the decision to either continue fighting the mob or letting myself take a few more (perhaps fatal) hits in order to get to the item first. F*ck me, right?

It is not a free-pvp game which is why I think this kind of gameplay is meh. If that was an opposing faction player, I think this would be a pretty cool gameplay.

4 minutes ago, VeloxBanks said:

Oh sorry, I didn't realize I was talking to an (ex?) Blizzard employee.

You don't have to be a Blizzard employee to speak about obvious stuff. Please don't tell me that company with no MMO experience, with MMO genre being new, intended that kind of mechanic because they thought it would be fun for other players to camp quest items. They simply did not.

3 minutes ago, VeloxBanks said:

We're not pointing fingers at you and calling you weird for wanting instant quest item respawns. We'd appreciate it if you don't do so either.

That's like, my opinion, eh. (for which I get the replies like if you don't like the 1% of game gtfo to retail)

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Vengyr is perfectly right.

 

How is good design BLOCK a "party of 5 questers" for hours, cause they can't all click the 15minute-respawn-timer gameobject?

 

Now, if wow was a single-player game, that would be fine and I also get why gameobjects gotta have a respawn timer, but again, some of those quest-gameobject-long-respawn-timer are just a game-blocker in the levelling process.

Sure..."gosh, the clicker just looted my gameobject...even if he's just arrived" and you go do something else, but there a're KEY-QUESTs that would block your entire quest-chains and those, sometimes, are quite necessary.

 

 

So yeah, I'm also against adding a "fast-clicker-minigame"...just because there are 1k players in your starting zone.

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This reminds me of something the lead dev of the old project I tested for used to say:

Players shouldn't dictate the game mechanics; Game mechanics should dictate the players.

Understand that you can't re-create vanilla without following that ethos whenever possible, period.

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Just now, Smirre said:

I never told you to "gtfo", i said that the retail is for you if you don't enjoy it here, just giving you a heartfelt advice. A big difference there. 

Mkay, sorry.

I have much, much more issues with retail though. Just thought that would be a popular opinion - but meh.

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3 minutes ago, Arrowlink said:

This reminds me of something the lead dev of the old project I tested for used to say:

Players shouldn't dictate the game mechanics; Game mechanics should dictate the players.

Understand that you can't re-create vanilla without following that ethos whenever possible, period.

Understand you can't re-create vanilla with the double-intended population for the game-world.

Infact, Azeroth was aimed at 3.0k/3.5k players, NOT 6k....and seems like "our" realms will have a 6k cap.

 

Most probably those "timers" were fine tuned for such a population....also considering that not everyone would follow a quest-guide.

 

So, yeah, 500 player in a starting zone VS 1000 players makes a HUGE difference...also considering how players now DO NOT wander around looking at the landscape, but quest no-stop.

Edited by mrmr
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Just now, mrmr said:

Understand you can't re-create vanilla with the double-intended population for the game-world.

Infact, Azeroth was aimed at 3.0k/3.5k players, NOT 6k....and seems like "our" realms will have a 6k cap.

You have no way of calculating the impact of changes you make on a macro scale. There are simply too many variables to consider.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

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4 minutes ago, Arrowlink said:

You have no way of calculating the impact of changes you make on a macro scale. There are simply too many variables to consider.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

I cannot precisely calculate that, but it's easy to understand that now everything is more about "xp efficiency" that not exploration/landscape/learning_the_game.

 

So, yeah, double population will have a HUGE effect on these game-objects (much more than during retail, with half the population).

 

EDIT:

Using a rough absurd comparison, even making the respawn-timers for these gameobject the half (to counter the double population...x2 pop, x(1/2) respawn-timers) would create queues on these gameojbects.

Edited by mrmr
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I already said this once sarcastically but it seems I should say it again to make a point.

Why not make Hogger respawn instantly as well? Why should I have to deal with someone standing right next to his spawn point and hitting him as soon as he respawns? Vanilla was made with a 3k pop in mind! How am I supposed to deal with this if there's 6k pop here? HOW am I supposed to deal with TWO people instead of one trying to get the same mob as me? It's impossible! ABSOLUTELY impossible! There is NO way around it! I will NEVER get that kill! There is NOTHING to do in this game aside from questing! 

Yeah. Silly. 

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7 minutes ago, mrmr said:

I cannot precisely calculate that, but it's easy to understand that now everything is more about "xp efficiency" that not exploration/landscape/learning_the_game.

 

So, yeah, double population will have a HUGE effect on these game-objects (much more than during retail, with half the population).

Actually, Darkrasp made some simple calculations a few days ago in Discord and reached the conclusion that each realm during the height of vanilla (5 mil subs) would have had on average 7000 accounts playing on it. That's above the player limit CF will have.

So, technically, CF will be within the range of a blizzlike realm population during vanilla.

Edited by Arrowlink
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2 minutes ago, Arrowlink said:

Actually, Darkrasp made some simple calculations a few days ago in Discord and reached the conclusion that each server during the height of vanilla (5 mil subs) would have had on average 7000 accounts playing on it. That's above the player limit CF will have.

So, technically, CF will be within the range of a blizzlike server population during vanilla.

That's not vanilla and/or vanilla starting zones. Sorry, try again.

At least, 7k is NOT what the majority of pserver-people thinks about the concurrent-players on a single server.

 

Even the faggit vanilla-chief said the max-population was ranging between 3.0k and 3.5k.

Screenshotted from Elysium-Discord and posted on Crestfall-Discord.

Edited by mrmr
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