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duzyizly

Ways of gold farming "banned" from Crestfall

42 posts in this topic

Greetings,

We have some topics on this forum about "best solo farm class", "what class should I pick for solo farming gold", "mage grind aoe tactics" etc.
Today we had this nice conversations like: "Dire Maul East farm is going to be inefficient because devs decided to change drop rate of gray items from flayers" and "hunter tribute solo run...".

So, as we know Crestfall is going to "ban" some of these ways of speed up gold farming (which is cool, honestly I like it);
but we actually don't know what is going to be banned?  examples: BRD pickpocket runs, solo killing elites in DM, ZG solo mage farm, Naxx rogue runs etc.

So if @Darkrasp or @Crogge could response to this topic that would be nice : )

And two more questions that concern this topic:
1. If You are going to "ban" DME flayers farm then then next "best" way to to farm gold is going to be:
a) rogue brd pickpocket runs
or
b) BRD arena mage aoe farm
So the question is: are You going to bad these to? And if answer is "Yes" - are You going to ban "next best" ways to farm gold aswell?

2. How to recognize what method is fair and what method isn't fair?

Regards

PS: ofc "ban" is a wrong word here (by these I mean - You gonna make em inefficient).

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You're making a fair point.

So far, seems like only two classes are being "nerfed" (well, you can't really nerf mage's AoE, can you?), but rogues have it quite easy...and no mention about how they're going to "nerf" rogues farming methods.

Edited by mrmr
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1 hour ago, duzyizly said:

And two more questions that concern this topic:
1. If You are going to "ban" DME flayers farm then then next "best" way to to farm gold is going to be:
a) rogue brd pickpocket runs
or
b) BRD arena mage aoe farm
So the question is: are You going to bad these to? And if answer is "Yes" - are You going to ban "next best" ways to farm gold aswell?

2. How to recognize what method is fair and what method isn't fair?

Regards

PS: ofc "ban" is a wrong word here (by these I mean - You gonna make em inefficient).

Personally I think it's fair to "ban" DM E flayer farming if DM Tribute/Maraudon is going to get banned as well.
DM E is a far better farming spot than any other alternatives (if DM Tribute/Maraudon is banned), the reason being that herbs will always be in high demand so no matter how many players farm this spot the items will still sell rather quickly and on top of that the raw gold income from DM E is pretty nice as well.

Stuff like mage BRD arena AoE farm won't be efficient if a lot of players farm there, because there's no where near the same demand for the materials you get there - so this won't be a problem.

Pickpocket runs won't be worth it either since there will be far better alternative spots to farm even if DM E/tribute + maraudon is not an option, such as:
Crafting + Gathering professions, recipe farming, cloth, materials and high value junk items farming (bats in EPL as an example) which is only from open world content more or less and they all give almost the same gold per hour depending on what class/spec you are playing. So it will pretty much be like the old days when DME/Tribute + maraudon wasn't just as known as it is today, if they were to be "banned". 

But as said this is just my opinion.

Edited by Cruzix
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Yeah, I'll be interested to see a response here. I understand that when there are two farming methods that can give close to 100+ g an hour and the next best thing is 20g an hour, then it makes sense to ban the couple of methods that are on the top, but if the next best alternatives are like 60g/80g or so, I don't see those first farming methods as server breaking. I'm not fighting for keeping those farming methods, but I think the way they are handled shouldn't break the instances they are in either. I'm curious to see how it all gets handled in the end :)

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3 hours ago, duzyizly said:

Greetings,

We have some topics on this forum about "best solo farm class", "what class should I pick for solo farming gold", "mage grind aoe tactics" etc.
Today we had this nice conversations like: "Dire Maul East farm is going to be inefficient because devs decided to change drop rate of gray items from flayers" and "hunter tribute solo run...".

So, as we know Crestfall is going to "ban" some of these ways of speed up gold farming (which is cool, honestly I like it);
but we actually don't know what is going to be banned?  examples: BRD pickpocket runs, solo killing elites in DM, ZG solo mage farm, Naxx rogue runs etc.

So if @Darkrasp or @Crogge could response to this topic that would be nice : )

And two more questions that concern this topic:
1. If You are going to "ban" DME flayers farm then then next "best" way to to farm gold is going to be:
a) rogue brd pickpocket runs
or
b) BRD arena mage aoe farm
So the question is: are You going to bad these to? And if answer is "Yes" - are You going to ban "next best" ways to farm gold aswell?

2. How to recognize what method is fair and what method isn't fair?

Regards

PS: ofc "ban" is a wrong word here (by these I mean - You gonna make em inefficient).

1: I wouldnt be banning pickpocketers; you don't even need to go to BRD to do it anyway as you can just go do it out in the world as barely anyone does it anyway

for example, if you get bored you could go pickpocket almost all the humanoids in searing gorge while you're waiting for a BRD LBRS or UBRS group to finish forming

2: I wouldn't put strict guidelines on it, and instead I'd be addressing it on a case-by-case basis so its easier to ban specific methods of farming gold; right now I think the significant offenders are hunters soloing maraudon, hunters soloing DM N, and mages soloing DM E flayers, and I don't quite get how a mage would be soloing BRD arena

Edited by Aquane
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3 minutes ago, Aquane said:

and I don't quite get how a mage would be soloing BRD arena

They're soloing all the mobs above the arena, not the actual arena boss. They drop cloth, librams and random BoE's, but as said in my previous post these items are not even close to being in just as high demand as herbs from DME so this farming method will balance itself out and wont be a problem.

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5 minutes ago, Cruzix said:

They're soloing all the mobs above the arena, not the actual arena boss. They drop cloth, librams and random BoE's, but as said in my previous post these items are not even close to being in just as high demand as herbs from DME so this farming method will balance itself out and wont be a problem.

ooooh

yeah id nerf that, just make em drop no loot or gold, simple as that; if mages wanna AoE farm they'd oughta compete with the other mages on the server to do it

edit: i hadnt quite considered the time it'd take to get there and run out and rest by yourself; what'd that be, an effective respawn timer of 10-15 mins? that's pretty good gold

otherwise sorrow hill might be a problem too

Edited by Aquane
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3 minutes ago, Aquane said:

ooooh

yeah id nerf that, just make em drop no loot or gold, simple as that; if mages wanna AoE farm they'd oughta compete with the other mages on the server to do it

otherwise sorrow hill might be a problem too

BRD arena is going to balance it self out. There's not high enough demand on those items - its only temporarily in high demand when DM releases. After that it will only be a decent farming spot like all the other spots.

Edited by Cruzix
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Not a fan of solo instance farming, so I don't have any complaints if they make it impossible to do so.

Anything that puts more people out in the world instead of hiding away in instances, is a good thing IMO.

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If it's Blizzlike then I say leave it alone. Not sure why people are wanting to change things.. Unless its a common private server issue/bug?

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Yeah I don't really get this? Why does this need to be changed? Because some classes can farm easier than others? That seems like kind of bullshit to me. Some classes are better at things than others. Thats vanilla. If you want all classes to be at the same level go play retail. 

There shouldn't be any changes to nerf farming. As long as a player isnt exploiting anything than let them do whatever they want. 

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This nerfing is actually horrendous at times. Having experienced many minor bullshit issues on ZK related to this when leveling or likewise I can easily say that it's caused more annoyance than adherence to game quality. Vanilla is a pot of imbalance, when you start to add minor "fixes" to limit the skillcap of your playerbase you're more so punishing them for being innovative rather than the players themselves actually getting the joy at excelling at something which originally was there whether you feel it should or not. I find it absolutely hilarious to see individuals come up with new ways of farming and then sharing it with the community for the common good, and then the most obvious reaction to that is a warcry to nerf the method because it is to efficient. Script it by the book and prevent loopholes to make sure the players recieve an authentic experience, whilst not being able to break several poor excuses of mechanics and we're set.

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I don't really have an opinion on this as of yet, but I will ask something that I feel hasn't been addressed in this topic as of yet.

What kind of deflationary pressure would banning effective gold farming put on the server economy? Especially if we are to assume that the VPN ban will effectively eliminate close to all chinese gold farmers.

I'm no expert in economics but it seems to me that vanilla already has a rather large amount of deflationary mechanics in the game, like the 60 mount, respec costs and just skill costs. These are all things that take a non-negligible amount of gold out of the server economy (especially in the case of the 60 mount).

Looking at some class specific gold farming methods as giving an unfair advantage to one class of another is, in my opinion, a logical fallacy. Assuming that these people are not hoarding their gold or farming towards their epic mount (this is a possibility) then the gold generated through this will go back into the economy providing much needed market liquidity.

If all of the sudden these farming methods were nerfed or restricted then most likely the net effect on the economy would be that we we would have a smaller amount of gold in circulation, leading to a smaller amount of goods traded & exchanged which in turn would drive prices down making gathering and crafting less profitable etc etc. The longer term effect is that it will deter trade and crafting.

Would be interesting to get some feedback from someone who has a better understanding of economics.

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im also against a ban of all these methods, it should stay blizzlike

 

my2cents

 

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I completely agree with that last 4 comments - I would much rather have that no gold farming spots were to be nerfed (custom changed)... I mean I'm a Hunter afterall, that juicy 100g/hr from soloing DM Tribute is very attractive :P (only hunters could farm DM tribute). However I can also see as to why it should be banned because 100g/hr is A LOT of raw gold to put into the economy, especially since the server will progress into later expansions which affects new expansions economy as well.

Besides they have already stated that they ARE going to nerf DM tribute and make changes so that DM E/Maraudon wont be efficient to farm (They will fix the bug that let you teleport out of instances when you relogged iirc, but can be countered by taking off your gear and die on purpose and run back in). However that second change wont completely kill the viability of DME/Maraudon, and I think it's only fair to "ban" those IF DM Tribute is to be "banned".
DM E/Tribute and Maraudon is by far the best gold methods in the game (aside from devilsaur leather, but thats open world so it can't be abused in the same way... unless.... mafia...) and they will all ruin the economy slowly. 

DM Tribute gives about 90-100g/hr but its only hunters that can solo it effectively.
DM East gives a TON of herbs (which completely devalues the herbalism profession) as well as giving decent raw gold income and the potential BoE drops.
Maraudon gives about 50g/hr if you're soloing it as a hunter, however lots of other classes can farm maraudon as well but it won't be as efficient. 

All other farming spots aside from DM E/Tribute and Maraudon are:
Crafting + Gathering professions, recipe farming, cloth, materials and high value junk items farming (bats in EPL as an example) which is only from open world content more or less and they all give almost the same gold per hour depending on what class/spec you are playing. So it will pretty much be like the old days when DME/Tribute + maraudon wasn't just as known as it is today, if they were to be "banned".


Edit: 

Farming DM Tribute as a Hunter on Nostalrius gave 90-100g/hr, so that might be completely inaccurate to what it gave back in vanilla, one thing that made the run a lot faster on Nostalrius was because they didn't have the Hyena patrol walking around around King Gordok's plateau which made him a lot easier to kill because you didn't have to be worried pulling those/killing them before killing king gordok. You can see the Hyena patrol being mispulled in this video from 2006 (Extremely bad quality, but you can still see whats going on)

Edit2:
Here's a better clip of it (watch the lower right corner).
It might not seem like it takes long to kill them but it will still lower the gold/hr a lot because you cannot make 5 runs/hr when this patrol is there. Not only do you have to kill them, you also have to wait for them to be in the right spot so you can finally pull them takes up a lot of effective time i.e lowering your gold/hr by a lot.

 

Edited by Cruzix
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Hardly an expert on this but the impression I get is that the only thing that's going to be changed are the exploits.

That is, any instances that can be exploited owing to incorrect scripting or mobs not functioning as intended will be adjusted accordingly.

From what I can see leaving these exploits aside, players will still be able to farm large amounts of gold IF they are sufficiently skilled and have done their homework.

For me, farming gold was all about inside knowledge, skill, research, practice and sometimes sheer bloody-mindedness.  

Preventing people from making gold is a bad philosophy, removing exploits is.

 

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I think it's fine to make this extreme gold farming like DM Trib and DM E inefficient. At ppl saying it wouldn't be blizzlike: I think Blizzard would have changed something about this too. It just wasn't used so heavily back in the days that it was a real concern.

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I think a lot of gold farming areas will be significantly different on CF compared to other servers, just from having the different loot rates and correct drop options.

Seriously, playing through the first 10 levels here and then comparing your drops to what you get on Elysium/Kronos/Rebirth/etc. is incredible. It's also made the stater areas significantly more challenging, instead of farming a particular mob for a decent white weapon drop like you can on other servers.

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fix the encounter/issue and you wont see it being a problem.

 

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Our plans for this currently extend no further than fixing the bug that allows players on private servers to reset an instance from inside the instance, and to make the Gordok Tribute chest unobtainable unless Guard Slip'kik and Captain Kromcrush are dealt with in some way - either by frost trap, ogre suit, or killing them in combat.  Alternatively, we can set a script condition such that unless Slip'kik is frozen, he is considered "dead", and unless Kromcrush preforms his Ogre Suit routine, he is also considered "dead" for the purposes of generating Tribute loot.

There is clearly expressed intention from Blizzard on how the Tribute was supposed to work: you got the option of killing Mol'dar and Fengus, or avoiding them by pathing carefully around them.  Slip'kik and Kromcrush were positioned such that they were obviously only intended to be either killed, or bypassed through usage of the special scripted mechanics provided.  Failure to do so should result in forfeiture of the associated loot.

Though some things may of course be tweaked, other than the aforementioned cases, there are no plans to drastically alter any other loot tables or mechanics.

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So the lasher loot tables will stay the same, you just won't be able to reset & port in and out so easily? 

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6 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

Our plans for this currently extend no further than fixing the bug that allows players on private servers to reset an instance from inside the instance, and to make the Gordok Tribute chest unobtainable unless Guard Slip'kik and Captain Kromcrush are dealt with in some way - either by frost trap, ogre suit, or killing them in combat.  Alternatively, we can set a script condition such that unless Slip'kik is frozen, he is considered "dead", and unless Kromcrush preforms his Ogre Suit routine, he is also considered "dead" for the purposes of generating Tribute loot.

There is clearly expressed intention from Blizzard on how the Tribute was supposed to work: you got the option of killing Mol'dar and Fengus, or avoiding them by pathing carefully around them.  Slip'kik and Kromcrush were positioned such that they were obviously only intended to be either killed, or bypassed through usage of the special scripted mechanics provided.  Failure to do so should result in forfeiture of the associated loot.

Though some things may of course be tweaked, other than the aforementioned cases, there are no plans to drastically alter any other loot tables or mechanics.

so what about other loot runs like ZG crocs, naxx farm, DM mass pull runs and so on? I expect they will stay the same?

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Particularly effective spots like those mentioned have been tweaked slightly, but not broken completely.  Those should still all drop the same items, though with slightly less frequency.

Players do have to be able to farm gold somehow.

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I am totally disagree with baning the retail vanila ways of farming gold like solo maraudon, DM, Lord incendus etc. Remember that the game is not only about grouping. It is a solo experience and solo adventure aswell! U cannot disable that option for some players or it would be fun-server and not blizzlike anymore. And as Darkrasp mentioned, players do have to be able to farm gold somehow!

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