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Outstanding

Time to flounce into the sunset

43 posts in this topic

Well I also think it was a big mistake not to backup their decision with more information. It is their choice to do as they please for sure, but a pity to see such a decision being taken, when they knew quite a reasonable number of members from this community would be disappointed.

So far CF's name was linked with transparency for me and others I believe. Now, being coupled with Elysium, which shows little of that same trait, and also has many other value divergences, much of the charm is gone. Actually quite funny that the first time CF is clearly not transparent is exactly when they team up with Elysium; who is known for staff members changing on a weekly basis without notice, a lot of past drama related to Nost, bugs, hacks, exploits, database manipulation, etc...

Your post was quite dramatic and many in Elysium community would probably answer with the typica "ok bye, can I have your gold?" but I can imagine you dedicated a lot of personal resources to this community, since you got 1k+ posts. And as yourself, I am not too fond of Elysium's values, lack of transparency and community attitude. (wth is up with that trendy use of russian words being mixed into the english posts all the time??)

This 'Legacy Network' is a ridiculous name for a to-be monopoly. I just hope it doesn't mask a shady cash grab somewhere, as there are no other big vanilla projects on the horizon AFAIK.

 

The vanilla scene is actually ugly as shit. Most servers benefit from open-source base server emulators but little do they contribute back to the public domain. Instead of following the footsteps of almost ALL past projects, I just wish the newer generation  (CF, Ely, Nost, Kronos) would actually start cooperating properly by working together in an open-source implementation and not by monopolizing the code and calling it a 'network'.

"I don't want others to profit from my work" is the typical answer to the question "why not open source?". But in this case, what will happen with Elysium if not profit from the work done in CF? Not only by Asura and other devs, but also by community members who researched internet archives and now who beta test. Elysium will profit. But CF will too, otherwise, why would CF join such a 'network'. It is just this little piece of the puzzle which is quite unclear to me. How does CF benefit from this joint project? WTB transparency.

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I second all of Outstanding's post really. I know 99.9% of people won't really care, we were not a huge community and I wasnt the most active due to work, but the trust is gone. It's not like you guys to rush out an annoucement and not have an FAQ ready for the following 2 days, CF is already being affected by Elysium's poor practices.

This whole thing is very one sided. The one hope left out of all the poor clones and now you're just...wow.

I'll probably hang around from time to time, but the trust and excitement for something better is dead.

Edited by Adalon
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I completely agree with you Outstanding.

Think my Mickey Mouse avatar boner is a bit misguided atm and should be facing the opposite direction atm. (and with less splatter)

Edited by Zecov
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Outstanding, when I was only lurking and following CF from afar it was posts by people like you, roadblock and elicas that tipped the scales and made me register. If even after the Q&A, FAQ and Orcbit's interview you still feel betrayed and leave, then the community will suffer a great loss, but I'll wish you the best.

 

But, to stay on topic; What really bothers me is some of the stuff unknown. I'll be sad if I can't have a Toon in a persistently Vanilla server that bans VPNs and have lower population limits. I really wanted to play through the extensions but also transfer my 60s when the server gets updated.

CF's team really dropped the ball on not having some FAQ or ANYTHING ready for the announcement. I thought they knew their community better than that. People are unhappy.

My fear is they didn't disclose more because they knew us well and have information that will make Crestfallen even angrier/more disappointed...

 

Addressing another point you made, I think if the quality speaking for itself really did work, the community being gone would become reality sooner or later, so the insufferable Elysium community coming to us doesn't bother me that much.

 

It will be bad. But it was going to get bad anyways sooner or later.

But if people feel like you and start giving up on CF then I start to worry more. Ideas like yours to have the guild website and forums were the kind of thinking I was hopeful about. The CF forums would go to shit as expected but people would have community run and driven cove where we could enjoy the same hygga we have here. I never posted much, my account is new, but just by lurking I felt part of something.

 

So I get what people are feeling, the something they once were is no more.

 

Personally I will wait and see what turns out of the merge, I'll listen to the interview, read the FAQs and Q&As and after that I'll take my hope to curt and judge it.

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4 minutes ago, Soulson said:

If you've grown to trust the developers little by little over the past 8+ months, with every statement of purpose, every announcement from Asura, and every Darkrasp update, are you truly ready to abandon that trust after one announcement you don't like while there's still so much that none of us know?

That's actually sensible advise, we shall see.

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Can't say I'm exactly excited either, but I'm a new face here so I don't know the nuances.

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@Outstanding I don't mean to be patronising but I'm quite disappointed in you, to be honest. You are possibly one of the most level-headed guys around here and the same as Tamaskan has said, you and Elicas were almost like community leaders when I joined and painted a real positive picture for CF to an outsider. It really swayed my decision to invest lurking time here.

You say this is unlike the Dev team you 'know', and yes, I admit that certain aspects could have been made much clearer (especially as it seems more info has been gleaned from discord post-announcement), this is also completely unlike what I 'know' of you... This just seems overly dramatic.

You also refer to Elysium as the 'cheap date', yet you play on the server and I've seen you contribute on the forums occasionally. It is no doubt riddled with bugs but you have conceded previously that Crestfall will have it's own set of problems to deal with on release. At present, we have no way to compare server quality other than what we are told so this seems unfair.

I know it's been said already but we're all pretty much emotionally invested in this project, especially post-farmers like yourself ;) and before a mass revolt happens, it's probably best to wait it out for an official FAQ at the very least (Orcbit is on the case from what I hear).

My only fear from this announcement would be loss of CF's identity and I'm sure many will agree you're a part of that.

So, hugs all round, yeah? Well, some of us are carebears after all...

 

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ill see if they hold up to their expectations of:

banning all VPNs except maybe on one server which might not exist

having at least one PvE and PvP PTE server

being the least buggy server out there by far, hopefully having none at all

 

if they can fulfill those promises and end up doing so, then I'll play on crestfall... though if they don't ill probably still play there since i wanna play on a fresh pve server thats as least as good as nost pve was anyway

if they bring elysium's population here without xfers, then thats too bad; a bad community for a huge server(when there aren't many huge choices) is to be expected... maybe its related to how depravity tends to be more prevalent in cities but im not too sure

at least there won't be many gold sellers with VPNs banned

 

i hope these forums stay up and there isn't a forum merger; elysium and crestfall should be segregated

Edited by Aquane
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4 hours ago, Soulson said:

They've made a decision that they feel is in the interest of the community with some information that we don't have right now. They're counting on our trust in them: that they have our interests at heart, and that they're doing the best they can for us.

Tell me honestly, when u look at this quote, ring any bells? 

 

3 hours ago, Efrafa said:

and before a mass revolt happens

Mass revolt? Its little harsh therm.  Didnt see rage posts here.Im negative about this merge, coz CF supposed to be my sanctuary.I escaped from 12k pop live Nost server to "project still in work" idea.With every "delay beta launch" post, devs here got words of support from this community...., realy dont understand this move.Like Asura said, time will tell.

 

3 hours ago, Efrafa said:

At present, we have no way to compare server quality other than what we are told so this seems unfair.

Yes, and with this merge, CF devs are pulled out to work with Elysium.They were already behind the schedule (2030?) ;) .Dunno, mixed feelings right now...

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Damn. There goes the guild I was hoping to be "just another guy" in.

I've appreciated and enjoyed your posts in the past @Outstanding. Hope in the end, CF releases a quality PTE PVE realm, and you check it out one day.  And I hope it's everything you (and I) are waiting for. And I hope all my previous hopes come true for myself also...

What... a... weird... day...

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First of all, sorry to see you go. Your walls of text have always been both fun and informative and you've contributed so much to this community. Having said that, I strongly disagree with this sentiment:

8 hours ago, Outstanding said:

The recent announcement marks the end of the current community on these forums. The previous community were a bunch of humble, decent, funny, generous and knowledgeable skins. It was my honour and privilege to be part of that community.

The recent announcement kills that community off, because that community have no interest in diluting the potential of Crestfall with a cheap date that might be popular, but is shallow and vacuous in terms of character.

How does helping other private servers become better somehow "dilute" CF? Asura has said that there won't be transfers to CF from the other projects, so characters who killed easier bosses, have bought gear with rl money or purchased gold won't be a problem. The quality of the scripting also won't somehow become worse because of this. If anything, the final product can be even better now that the devs can test their stuff over at Elysium.

So are you saying that the actual community and future player base will be "diluted" because of cooperating with Elysium and drawing players from there? They are not somehow "lesser" than us yknow. We all love WoW and dislike the retail version. Even without this "Legacy Gaming Network"-thingy, CF:s population would have grown massively closer to launch, which would have brought the usual trolls and haters to the forums. That's what moderators are for. As for us being collectively "humble, decent, funny, generous and knowledgeable", sure, but the same is true of all the other private server communities. And the people here can also be elitist, mean, grumpy, vindictive and ignorant (I know I am regularly at least 3/5), just like anyone else. People just happen to act more polite in a small and comfy environment like this, compared to, say, reddit, that brings out the worst in people. A larger population obviously brings some issues with it, but it is inevitable and happens to every game. I'd rather have drop in quality posts if that meant that these forums actually became more active. It's been pretty damn quiet here the last couple of months, the occasional drama news aside.

As for this community dying because people don't want to play here anymore, I highly doubt. This will still be the only PTE project and the fact that Elysium will be stuck in vanilla forever instead of progressing to BC eventually, like nost intended, means more people, especially those new to the private server scene, will more likely be interested in CF.

I do agree that the announcement should have been accompanied by a FAQ, but it's not like the devs here have exactly dazzled us with with their openness these last few months anyway. When was the last time Asura posted anything here prior to the announcement? :P

Anyways, sorry about the rant and farewell. Hopefully we'll still see you here sometimes. :)

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I'm sorry to see you go, Outstanding, I always enjoyed your posts here. I still hope that you'll be back sometimes.

Edited by wrtsdf
spelling :(
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I'd say "goodbye" and all that but I'd rather just say good luck and hope that you come back one day. I guess I'm just not ready to accept the fact that I'll no longer see any outstanding Outstanding posts. So stay safe out there and maybe prep up some more walls of text for when/if you come back.

It sucks to see the community in this state. For some it's all cool but it seems that most people aren't quite happy. Me? I'm doing my best to stay on the positive side of things. Plus I'm not entirely sure what to think or do. Should I just play on Elysium? Eh, it's not that great. Should I just wait for CF? Eh, this whole thing puts me off a bit. Should I just give up on even trying to ever play an older version of WoW and just buy Retail and waste away there continuously lying to myself that I'm having fun while actually only ever even caring about the game slightly when playing with friends -if- that ever happens? That's starting to look like my best choice, ironic as it is.

To an extent I'm not even mad about the announcement itself but more about what it's doing to the community. Can't argue that it's sparked quite some negativity. Be it people leaving or generally losing even a little bit of trust for the CF team.

I'd hate to see this all swirl down the crapper. I said a few days ago how the community will start to descend into toxicity once we get more people in. Sooner or later. How that in turn will allow for more potential beta testers and help the server in the long run. I expected that and I accepted it. But seeing it get hit like this isntead? Well...

I'm still here. I'm overly trusting and that bad trait of mine shines brightest in situations like this. Perhaps I'll be better off here in the end. No way to know.

 

 

And if anything I hope this doesn't mean we have to come into contact with KillerD again. No.

NO

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CF won't test their core on Elysium servers. Elysium will use CF as a de facto beta and after they are satisfied with the state of the core they will move it over to their servers. How can you believe that they would port a possibly faulty core onto their servers and what, 'give it a shot'? No, they will wait until all the bugs have been worked out and then use the core.

Second this kills all the CF hype because nobody will wait for CF servers anymore. They will start on Elysium right now. Why wait? You will play on the same core with CF and at the same time whether you start now on Elysium or wait for the CF servers. What is the benefit of waiting? There is none.

I'm asking the people who have decided to remain with CF. How many of you will wait for the CF release and how many of you will just start on Elysium right now because you know it will eventually be the same thing?

I saw what happened with the Nost - Elysium partnership and what followed afterwards. It is the very reason I dropped my character and quit their server. I wanted out of that shit pie. Now CF wants to toss you all into it. I'm not sure how many of you tried Elysium but trust me, it is garbage. Toxic community and poor management. And when I say toxic I mean Chernobyl toxic. Holy shit, I would never go back to that god forsaken pit of salt. I made a post once asking the people who were old Nost players to try and get along with the new Fresh realm crowd and I got insulted by both sides, each one claiming I was against them. It's like they don't know how to function if there isn't hostility thrown at them.

For these reasons I will not play on CF or what ever they are calling themselves now. There are plenty of games that are far better than WoW out there. The reasons why I wanted to try vanilla again was to try and recapture some of that community feeling that we had when it first came out. That's gone now. I hope you, who remain, will find what ever drove you back into the vanilla scene. I truly hope you won't be disappointed with CF as I was with Elysium. As for me, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Farewell and good luck.

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I am writing a little, but every day I come here and read, It is a pity that you leave, I think it will not be the only case and it's sad because the good people are replaced by TRASHPPL.  And on their project Elys abound (These are the people who do not even read the CF forum,because they saw that the server is not running) And the whole atmosphere disappear. 

I, certainly, hope for the best, but...........

Good luck dude and I hope, that you come back here

sorry for mistakes

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so many of you say what i try and want to say so much better then i could ever say... so i'll just STFU.

But not for long. You can't keep a bastard like me pacified!

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I too hope, that you "preserve yourself to the community" :), but i too understand, that it is crucial to formulate ones own discontent about the present situation with the only option of power, that is given to a simple member.

I remember when i was working on a server project and many team-members thought of themselves as "doing the players a favor". I never adopted to such a perspective, on the contrary. I honestly thanked the players for giving their trust into my vision, i felt it the other way round as maybe many ppl do. And i hope the CF-Team is of the same kind and therefore takes your way of communicating with them seriously,. Because it's not as simple as it looks from the outside, and there is no shame in hearing out the people that truly invested themselves in the project, even if one might seem indecisive to the outward. The inward perspective is what matters in the long run.

 

Greetings

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I hope you don't leave the project at all and just give some time for things to settle.
I know i'm doing that.

If Asura and the rest of the team just do things the correct way it might not be a bad thing at all.
Anyway like i said, lets just wait and see what happens.
The devs here have shown how smart, professional and careful they are, so i still have hope in this team.

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1 hour ago, VladAtheris said:

Second this kills all the CF hype because nobody will wait for CF servers anymore. They will start on Elysium right now. Why wait? You will play on the same core with CF and at the same time whether you start now on Elysium or wait for the CF servers. What is the benefit of waiting? There is none.

Elysium players in reddit are complaining that what's the point of playing there now when it doesn't progress to BC like CF does...

The reason to wait for CF is the same as always. It's going to be PTE. And I'd rather wait and play through all vanilla content with the best core and raids from the beginning instead of spending months on a crappy realm in the hopes that it will be upgraded some day.

1 hour ago, VladAtheris said:

I'm asking the people who have decided to remain with CF. How many of you will wait for the CF release and how many of you will just start on Elysium right now because you know it will eventually be the same thing?

It's not going to be the same thing. It will be vanilla forever with Elysium team's rules.

And the reason why Elysium is toxic is because its overpopulated, not because the main player base in there is somehow fundamentally different compared to other projects. Another reason to wait for CF, which is going to have reasonable population caps.

Edited by Lilaina
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2 hours ago, VladAtheris said:

 

Second this kills all the CF hype because nobody will wait for CF servers anymore. They will start on Elysium right now. Why wait? You will play on the same core with CF and at the same time whether you start now on Elysium or wait for the CF servers. What is the benefit of waiting? There is none.

Many players complain of raid scripts, raid tuning and all of that. If you start on Elysium you can get your gear with the "easy" raids and then play on the correctly tuned and scripted raids having the gear already. We all know some people only prefer Vanilla because of the challenge and feeling of accomplishment, these people have literally no reason to play Elysium and hope for future improvements, they can't compete for world firsts, they will always be behind on the grind and for future releases they'll be competing against people who played an easier version of the game, and the different gear will make a lot of difference.

Were there guilds waiting/getting ready for CF's release ? I don't remember, but if they were I believe they'll still enroll when we go live. PTE and correct tuning are real drawing points since there will be no character transfer.

 

3 hours ago, VeloxBanks said:

It sucks to see the community in this state. For some it's all cool but it seems that most people aren't quite happy. Me? I'm doing my best to stay on the positive side of things. Plus I'm not entirely sure what to think or do.

[...]

I'm still here. I'm overly trusting and that bad trait of mine shines brightest in situations like this. Perhaps I'll be better off here in the end. No way to know.

I'm on the same boat. I have a bad feeling on all of this, but still try and see the positive side; more testers, maybe more devs (we still have no idea if the development of CF is going to be slower with Asura splitting his time improving CF and Elysium or faster with more people helping develop), some guaranteed population and notoriety (even if it were to be a mute point with the quality bringing people in and some homebrew hype machine spinning), maybe even some greater expertise in a few topics (Nost and Elysium had experience dealing with stress on servers and scaling their databases and whatnot - I know asura made the cool clustering system, but maybe there is something out there that someone on Elysium's team knows about and CF's team doesn't. I believe so just because CF agreed to the partnership) and stuff we have no idea about.

 

I'll keep a positive mindset. I'll try not to be hopeful but also not overly critical just because of prejudice. Just wait for more information and try to position myself on the calm and collected side of the community.

 

4 hours ago, Lilaina said:

Even without this "Legacy Gaming Network"-thingy, CF:s population would have grown massively closer to launch, which would have brought the usual trolls and haters to the forums. That's what moderators are for. As for us being collectively "humble, decent, funny, generous and knowledgeable", sure, but the same is true of all the other private server communities. And the people here can also be elitist, mean, grumpy, vindictive and ignorant (I know I am regularly at least 3/5), just like anyone else. People just happen to act more polite in a small and comfy environment like this [...]

 

Yep, I couldn't agree more. There is no "special" community, I can't think of something about Crestfall that would appeal to "humble, decent, funny, generous and knowledgeable skins" but wouldn't appeal to the haters, cynics, elitists and shitpost spammers. They always come.

If we want to play on a big server we'll always have to deal with people like that. Also while I think no community is special we have to remember that no one person is special also. We all get mad, sad, angry and etc. It all depends on how we deal with it. So not to be elitist, every community has great people in them, even if diluted.

My plan right now is just to treat everything community related as if the announcement wasn't made. If someone comes to the forums and introduces themselves as an ex-elysium player I'll treat them like everybody else, he is just another nice guy who wants to play PTE legacy wow like every single one of us.

If the VPNs work and CF's team find creative and effective ways to deal with gold sellers, spammers and the other shit in the servers the hate on the forums will probably be kept at a minimum. Satisfied people tend to be nicer. People who get what they were promised are calmer. In-game, if the chat isn't being spammed and the people who talk to you seem genuine you're more prone to help, listen and create adventures together. So just having no bots, no gold sellers, no farming cross-faction mafias and not being in a server overpopulated with griefers already makes the community less prone to grief, spam complaints and etc.

 

I'm 98% sure I'll play CF, even if I get mad with the FAQ and Q&A. Even if just to try it.

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6 hours ago, Sallerius said:

Mass revolt? Its little harsh therm.  Didnt see rage posts here.Im negative about this merge, coz CF supposed to be my sanctuary.I escaped from 12k pop live Nost server to "project still in work" idea.With every "delay beta launch" post, devs here got words of support from this community...., realy dont understand this move.Like Asura said, time will tell.

I didn't really mean to imply rage, more just dissension amongst the ranks. There are numerous comments about leaving, betrayal, selling out.

While I completely understand people's frustrations, there is a lot of misinformation and fear-mongering being spouted in the announcement comments that are fuelling the fires around the forums and I think it's wholly unfair on both server's communities and the development teams. There is no us and them. We're all here for a decent WoW emulation and if this means coming together for the 'greater good', so be it.  This sounds like a Nostalrius pitch but I do agree with their uniting the Legacy community sentiment, I just don't believe getting BlizzActivision on board was a good idea.

There no doubt should've been more info ready for the countless questions to this co-operative effort but hindsight is great isn't it? Is it that easy to forget this ain't some high-budget, large scale private enterprise with limitless resources to throw a PR and marketing team together to gauge public opinion?

I'd hate to see many of the famous faces around the forum throw in the towel on this project because of server prejudice and rash judgements. Let's wait it out for some hard information on future plans first.

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