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Polyphem

Healthy forms of organization - The impact of "reputation" on the community

35 posts in this topic

I start this topic because of some latest thoughts on how important the system of "forum reputation" on posts can be for a healthy communication and organization of the "community" around here. Especially with the newest influx of toxicity and disorientation around the Crestfall-Project i was really positively surprised how well it was handled in the forums. There might be many reasons for this, and none of them will give an exhaustive explanation, maybe you even disagree on this positive picture i draw here. So i would be glad to hear your opinion and reasoning on that matter.

I personally link the positive picture i get to the optimistic perspective that is presented to new members. On the one hand this is carried by the impression of the high level of expertise and professionalism of the staff, on the other hand by an already existing "community of shared values" of most of the members here. For the first point one can only be grateful to the Crestfall-Team, it's a rare honor and chance. The second point is due to an interplay between the CF-STaff and the members of the CF-Community. And this is also managed and structured with the help of the reputation system:

When looking back at the Nostalrius-forums or when taking a peek into the Elysium-forums one will find no kind of reputation-system. What you also get is a lot more "extreme-talk": People that only declare their allegiance to the project no matter what, or people that go on a rampage against the server. Also there is way more bashing against "uninformed" ppl, that want to get a hold of the situation and so forth.

I think, that this is also because there is no elaborated way of building a hierarchy in the community. And before you get me wrong here: I'm talking not mainly about a hierarchy of members, but a hierarchy of thoughts (even though both are somewhat intertwined). You leave the community in some way confused and unorganized, because of the sheer magnitude of voices that come to the surface. The more structured the community can debate on their own behalf the less black and white reactions you will get when introducing new elements to the project. I think, that the recent drama was also supported by a lack of a established middle-ground to reflect on things. Many ppl just went nuts against Elysium (hailing to every new groundless accusation that popped up) or blindly followed the "truths" of the Elysium-Team (Shenna somewhat resembled this mentality when she more or less said, that it is about "trust" and not about "reason" concerning the project under her lead - see the leaked staff-meeting). 

Also in regard to recent reflections on the dangers of an influx of "toxic dynamics" here n the forums due to unprecedented attention the project has seen, i would like to point out, how good things went so far here in the forums. I somewhat doubt, that a stricter moderation here will be of benefit to the overall concept.

 

Again sorry for my bad english. I hope there will be some replies and also differing/complementary opinions :).

 

Greetings

 

Edited by Polyphem
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^ Outstandings alt account? O.o

On a more serious note, I don't think the forum rep mechanics has anything to do with keeping the forum clean. It's just that the server isn't out yet and all the toxic types are currently stroking their epeens on Elysium.

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2 minutes ago, Elicas said:

^ Outstandings alt account? O.o

On a more serious note, I don't think the forum rep mechanics has anything to do with keeping the forum clean. It's just that the server isn't out yet and all the toxic types are currently stroking their epeens on Elysium.

How very dare you.

Or rather, I find the tone of your implied contention to be grossly unfair and misleading. I advise you in the strongest terms to desist this particular line of causality, or I will be forced to defend my good character and reputation by legal redress.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Elicas said:

On a more serious note, I don't think the forum rep mechanics has anything to do with keeping the forum clean. It's just that the server isn't out yet and all the toxic types are currently stroking their epeens on Elysium.

Agreed. I think things around here will become less civil once the server is launched. 

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18 minutes ago, Calfuron said:

Agreed. I think things around here will become less civil once the server is launched. 

The people who keep it civil will be filtered out by monkeys, there's too many.

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While I agree that an influx of certain unsavory types is inevitable as the project progresses, I remain hopeful about the prospect of preserving a decent community here on the forums. It is our common responsibility to cultivate an atmosphere of civility and cordial discourse. I know, it sounds naive and Utopian. Maybe it is. We all know what kinds of personalities lurk in the cesspool they call the "private server community". But what they seem to have in common is that they feed on attention and conflict. And therein lies the challenge. If only we could ignore them. Deny them their sustenance. Then perhaps there is hope.

And honestly, is that really so hard? I mean, aren't they just fucking tedious? Aren't you as bored of their dreary drama as I am?

Oh well. You may say I'm a dreamer, etc.. 

Edited by echis
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I don't have a lot to contribute if it's not about cats or fishing or general hype, so really the upvotes don't reflect anything. But then I don't even have 1k, filthy peasant.

 

4 hours ago, Polyphem said:

Again sorry for my bad english.

What?

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1 hour ago, echis said:

If only we could ignore them

 

59 minutes ago, echis said:

And honestly, is that really so hard? I mean, aren't they just fucking tedious? Aren't you as bored of their dreary drama as I am?

 

CF community got bigger impact than Elysium about drama (lgn) thing.Its normal i think, most of us still w8 for server to launch.On the other hand those Elysium "hatefull 8" didnt accomplish anything good for now.If they thought their cause is just, and their lil revolution will save server,...well all they got is number of gms(or devs dunno, dont care anymore) quit.  Majority just dont care about drama thing(luckily), just look at their realm numbers.Nothing changed.Still its impressive to me, how ppl blindly follow some YT boyz.New age of harassment.... damn, we people(in global) need to break from this "internet safety" as soon as possible.

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2 minutes ago, Chickengrease said:

Plot twist: this thread was created in order to gain reputation. 

Oh god damn it why do I always fall for such crap.

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3 minutes ago, ilovecats said:

Oh god damn it why do I always fall for such crap.

Too busy talking to cats.

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1 minute ago, ilovecats said:

I wish :c

My wolf pet will be coming for your cat. Watch out. 

Edited by Chickengrease
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4 hours ago, echis said:

While I agree that an influx of certain unsavory types is inevitable as the project progresses, I remain hopeful about the prospect of preserving a decent community here on the forums. It is our common responsibility to cultivate an atmosphere of civility and cordial discourse. I know, it sounds naive and Utopian. Maybe it is. We all know what kinds of personalities lurk in the cesspool they call the "private server community". But what they seem to have in common is that they feed on attention and conflict. And therein lies the challenge. If only we could ignore them. Deny them their sustenance. Then perhaps there is hope.

And honestly, is that really so hard? I mean, aren't they just fucking tedious? Aren't you as bored of their dreary drama as I am?

Oh well. You may say I'm a dreamer, etc.. 

Hmm, but I'm not the only one... 

:)

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As some others have already stated, I find it really unlikely that the reputation posts get have anything to do with it. People that want to read posts, will read posts. When I browse the forum and find a new post, my first thought isn't "Let me look at how much + votes this guy has ever gotten", I'm more concerned with the post's content. It doesn't bother me if the person have 5 reputation or 1,000 reputation, I've always felt that in a smaller, tight-knit community, every post is worth being read. This isn't like the official forum where it's always the same screaming for Bliz to buff this, nerf that, re-implement this thing you took out, etc, and it's not like Reddit where it seems like most people just want to see the world burn. For now, at least, this is a forum where everyone is friendly enough and discourse is civil, managing to not devolve into flame wars or what have you. It is that scenario I find every voice valid.

I suppose new people might find the reputation system useful in finding out who should be paid attention to, but I don't really think that's a good thing. Everyone should be paid attention to, is the way I see it.

 

 

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I am a simple man. I see "reputation" in the title, I upvote everything Elicas and Outstanding ever posted.


On the topic of this topic, or as close as I can get, since I can't really talk on topic; the best I usually can do is to talk close enough to it:
As I said previously, I am a veteran of many a forum. That means two. I never felt the need to associate past my first wow community, so the second one really was just a necessity, as the community went there. For a short while, before it turned out the admin is the kind of person that'd charge you for tripping your leg. The rest was spent amongst the twisted, charred remains of said community, at first trying to mediate, then, after all sound fell on deaf ears, taking a spiteful glee in the ongoing destruction of something that was built over many years.

In that time, I saw many examples of how communities react to the team and vice versa, as well as their reactions to change. In our case, it was a team that wouldn't budge because they were used to ordering the community around versus a community that wouldn't budge, because they were used to the team treating them as people. Ensue much fun and a server merge that died literally on the day it happened.



How exactly does this pertain to the topic, you may ask. Well, in two points: reaction to the unknown and new, and stricter moderation.

Ad the first point - I think I said some of this somewhere on these forums before, or at the very least on shitcord: You probably noticed there was a big change recently. I like to call it the incident. The incident happened suddenly and without any prior announcement. And that is exactly the one worst thing a team can do to their community. Sure, not the entire community. There's always the subsets that don't really care - the server hoppers, the easily impressionable, those who didn't learn much about the server in the first place, the ones that play draenei. All of those have in common that they don't mind. They also have in common that their ability to stay with a server in difficult times is ephemeral.

Who you gotta really focus on when thinking about telling stuff front and fair and square and semicircle, is the core. Now what core is exactly, Merriam-Webster is suspiciously silent on the topic of wow severs, but what I learned and makes up my definition is: The group of people who are, I dare to say, in love with the server, who have been with it from the beginnings, or are deeply and perhaps even professionally invested in it, wearing their heart on their sleeve and carrying the server's card.

Interestingly, it's exactly these people who usually have the most reputation on the forums. And how exactly will this group of people react is a barometer of how good the decision will be for the server. A decision that is informed about will be always tolerated more than a decision that was made without asking, or even telling anyone. And we saw this during the incident, which disheartened a great part of the core fanbase, and, infallibly, it eventually proved to be a very, very ...not a good thing at all indeed.

Because no matter what they say, that they aren't the face of the community, and no matter what the team can say, that they are only single people and not a big percentage of the community, well, the poetic truth is, these people's damn upvotes got into such big numbers for a good reason. It's a very obvious agreement of the rest of the community. Oftentimes I come in to say something and see someone else said what I came with, and more eloquently than I ever would. Or, like in the case of the guy who likes to be standing out in his field, they can say it in such a way that they actually address what is talked about, instead of just writing a wall of text in the hopes that something inside will be relevant.
So that's what reputation is good for.



Ad the second point - stricter moderation. One always has to have intelligent moderators. Since it's necessary to shoot down all the viagra and draenei giblet enlargement ads, and time from time the chronic spammers too (hi, Antility). I once got in trouble - and totally justly - as I always took three days to respond to a topic, and by the time it was locked, which I didn't notice as I had the old version of the topic (I was a dev, so I actually could post there :D).

But. But! Never it is justifiable to punish someone for their opinion, as long as it is put forward in a civil manner. Because believe it or not, if someone screeches at you, throwing diarrhea proverbial, and quite possibly literal, all around the forums, you aren't muting them for their opinion, but for all the dung you now have to make into balls and roll away. Yes, that analogy means that a proper, fair moderator, is a vital part of a forum's ecosystem and also worshipped by the Egyptians.

The second forum I mentioned was a place where certain Pottu would look like a harmless puppy. The censoring there was real, and at the point when you could get banned for saying anything against the new regime, or - having a milder history of that - for having (M) in your signature (signifying our server, Mystiq), pretty much anyone but the core gave up and dispersed amongst the private servers, like the humanity dispersed amongst the stars after the death of Leto Atreides II. The chief difference being, Leto oppressed his subjects for a purpose, the admin of that server did it because, enveloped in hubris as much as he was, his ego was great, but his intelligence, or maybe foresight, were that of a pumpkin that has yet to ripen.
 

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2 hours ago, Chickengrease said:

Plot twist: this thread was created in order to gain reputation. 

Double Plot Twist: comment the truth, in order to gain reputation.

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2 minutes ago, AzAMOuS said:

Double Plot Twist: comment the truth, in order to gain reputation.

Was waiting for this reply +1 :D

Triple plot twist.. We could go on forever this way huehue

Edited by Chickengrease
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Just now, Chickengrease said:

Was waiting for this reply +1 :D

+1 the +1, in order to gain reputation.

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18 minutes ago, ilovecats said:

reminds me of a scientific article.

I've been told many things over the years. Usually it's something like "close the door from the other side" or "those are my chips". But never, ever, did anything I wrote remind someone of a scientific article :o.

Edited by Xaverius
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1 hour ago, Xaverius said:

I am a simple man.....
 

Total lie.

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10 hours ago, Xaverius said:

You probably noticed there was a big change recently. I like to call it the incident. The incident happened suddenly and without any prior announcement. And that is exactly the one worst thing a team can do to their community. Sure, not the entire community. There's always the subsets that don't really care - the server hoppers, the easily impressionable, those who didn't learn much about the server in the first place, the ones that play draenei. All of those have in common that they don't mind. They also have in common that their ability to stay with a server in difficult times is ephemeral.

I am deeply offended by this. I didn't mind the incident and I would never play a draenei. :P

...

Kidding aside, I wouldn't generalize that people like me, who didn't mind the LGN, will be the ones to give up on the project during difficult times just because we didn't care about that particular drama. We certainly weren't the ones who said they were done with the project, or made big dramatic exits because of it (No offense @Outstanding ^_^). More likely we easily impressionable server hoppers will simply keep playing because we're not as personally involved with the project and don't take these things personally, even if the server hits some troubled times down the line.

 

9 hours ago, ilovecats said:

@Xaverius

A very interesting story, reminds me of a scientific article.

Needs a works cited list in MLA and a peer review.

Edited by Lilaina
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9 hours ago, Xaverius said:

I've been told many things over the years. Usually it's something like "close the door from the other side" or "those are my chips". But never, ever, did anything I wrote remind someone of a scientific article :o.

Poor you ;c

Maybe you just need an equally weird audience!

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