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Outstanding

Why did Blizzard decide on 5 for the player numbers in instances?

36 posts in this topic

I could look this up, but more interested in teasing this out over time.

So, being venerable in WoW terminology, I come from an RPG background like D&D et. al. That's like with dice, paper, rule books and miniatures. In those days, you would need 5 people to run a half-way decent session. One would be the DM (referee), then you'd need a fighter (warrior), a priest (priest) and then a choice between a Magic-User (mage), Thief (Rogue) or a mixture between the others if you were Elven/Dwarven. The thing is though, that 4 players was usually seen as an optimum number comprising of tanking/protection, healing and DPS.

Considering how much of WoW relies on the sane background. Why did the developers decide on having 5 players in instances and why did the numbers work out so skewed towards DPS?

Just curious what you think.

Cheers 

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It's so obvious.....

It has to be an odd number for decision making. 3 is too low (on DPS). 7 is too high (would take too long to form groups), and balancing content for 7 would also be more time consuming.

 

(joking, I have no idea, I know other mmos use even numbers)

Edited by loeth
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They count their fingers. Mistery solved.

 

 

Edited by DonnyDonowitz
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Why does this question sound so inappropriate to me ?

 

Like "WTF ?"

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Im pretty sure the question we need to be asking ourselves is, why doesn't ore stack to 20? 

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Why do you need stacks of arrows, instead of just a number taking up a single inventory spot?

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Because 5 people are the "quintessence" to a achieve something higher? I absolutely have no idea why Blizzard decided, that it should be 5 people.

But the number 5 has a huge impact on many cultural, ancient scientific and religios concepts and phenomena. For example there are five...

... columns (is this even rhe right translation?) of islam

... wounds of Christ

... elements of Taoism (even five elements in western tradition if you count Aristoteles' "ether")

Also 5 is a very important number of symmetries in nature. For example:

Many blossoms, echinoderms (seastars, sea urchins and such) have five segments.

55 minutes ago, DonnyDonowitz said:

They count their fingers. Mistery solved.

This is actually another good example: Many vertebrates have their endings of their extremities segmented in five parts.

All in all the number five can be seen very often in many contexts, and this may be the reason why it's also important in many fantasy universes. Ok that's just guessing and maybe i've gone a bit to deep with this post but i hope you get what i'm trying to say xD

Edited by Mogri
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21 minutes ago, ilovecats said:

Why do you need stacks of arrows, instead of just a number taking up a single inventory spot?

Because the more arrows that are in the quiver the less space there is in the quiver.

I learned that from Bill Nye.

 

Edited by VeloxBanks
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Because it is more than 4 and less than 6.

Obviously.

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I believe Blizzard folks been using this calculation:

a - number of maximum teamed up players in diablo 1
b - number of maximum teamed up players in diablo 2 lod
c - number of maximum teamed up players in starcraft bw (4v4 game)
d - number of maximum teamed up players in warcraft 3 tft (6v6 game)
x - maximum player numbers in wow dungeons
so,
a = 4
b = 8
c = 4
d = 6
x = ?

x = (a+b+c+d)/4 = 22/4 = 5,5 (and because you can't take 0,5 for a dungeon, then it's 5,0)

IZI PIZI

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55 minutes ago, Devair said:

Im pretty sure the question we need to be asking ourselves is, why doesn't ore stack to 20? 

And even more to the point, why does clam meat stack, but unopened ones don't?

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Why are there Harvest Watchers in Westfall ?

 

Im blown away by the fact there are Harvest Watchers in Westfall holy damn...

Edited by Brikot
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I think you answered your own question. I have to imagine that at least some of the original WoW developers had a D&D background.

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To be honest (at least from what I have seen on other p-servers), I dont think they "chose" the number 5.

Most dungeons are open for 10 people, and as far as I can see you can complete most dungeons with 3-4 people aswell. 
I guess the players made the number up because 5 players are the max for still completing quests and the more people come, the easier it is.

 

What I REALLY wonder is, who came up with the Idea that forsaken should have a breathing animation? tz tz tz ..

Greetings!

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2 hours ago, ilovecats said:

Why do you need stacks of arrows, instead of just a number taking up a single inventory spot?

Why do you need to carry them around in your inventory instead of just having a quiver slot that would determine how much you can carry?



Also filthy @Outstanding, not even considering a barbarian and their special dice!

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1 hour ago, Calfuron said:

I think you answered your own question. I have to imagine that at least some of the original WoW developers had a D&D background.

Azeroth was literally their D&D setting.

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maybe they thought most players would be damage-dealers

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Damage dealers are always more common than other roles and the game is designed around that. With only one damage dealer, many instances would be flat out impossible to complete unless the group heavily overgears the place.

If the design revolved around only one damage dealer needed, then content would be simply too easy and one dimensional as the reliance on crowd control would also be dropped. All of it would lead to tanky melees that can both soak and deal damage being too prevalent and pure damage dealers marginalized.

 

Another factor to consider is the deadweight, many players are simply bad and rely on getting carried, having a bigger party limit, gives your game a buffer to accomodate them. This also applies to unpopular roles and undergeared alts.

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arent a few dungeons raid possible...like deadmines? or is that just a glitch on the private servers?

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This thread just proves nobody knows shit about game design. topkek

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2 hours ago, soulzek said:

This thread just proves nobody knows shit about game design. topkek

Well damn. Never knew you had to know game design to make speculative comments about a game. 

In other news, kids shouldn't be allowed to question their teachers in school since they don't know the first thing about teaching, people who don't know how to direct a film shouldn't review them etc etc.

On a more serious note, comments like these have a "gatekeeping" feeling about them while providing nothing of substance to the thread. Personally I think they're 100% unnecessary. 

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4 hours ago, soulzek said:

This thread just proves nobody knows shit about game design. topkek

I've seen a game design or two in my time.

It's five people, because WoW is influenced by D&D. We know that D&D is the tool of Satan! Now think, what is commonly associated with Satan? The pentagram, of course! And how many points does a pentagram have? That's right, five! Coincidence? Barely. There is a clear pattern of the Devil's work here.

I hope that sufficiently answers the question of this topic.

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Posted (edited)

I think the best thing I've seen so far is what @loeth said, with odd numbers being better for votes.

Otherwise, I think maybe we shouldn't look at it as 1Tank/1Healer/3DPS, but rather 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 1 melee, 1 caster and 1 CCer. Roles in Vanilla aren't as clear cut as just "3 DPS". Also, by having 5 people, loot is unlikely to be wasted.

Edited by Pvt_8Ball
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17 hours ago, Yavannie said:

And even more to the point, why does clam meat stack, but unopened ones don't?

O yeah...6 slot bags and lot of clams....

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