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Sherekhan

Feral dps rotation etc

I am pretty new to druid but thx to @Elicas i get more and more certain i wan't to roll one on Crestfall. I am right now fooling around with one on another server to practice etc and get the feel before release. 

What i wonder is how a basic rotation looks like as cat. Rake/Claw/Shred/ravage. Rip or Ferocious Bite. 

When not from the back are claw always better than Rake?

I wonder both from a raid or 5 man and even PvP (even if i know there is no rotation, you could talk about a basic prioritazing list)

 

thx

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13 hours ago, Sherekhan said:

I am pretty new to druid but thx to @Elicas i get more and more certain i wan't to roll one on Crestfall. I am right now fooling around with one on another server to practice etc and get the feel before release. 

What i wonder is how a basic rotation looks like as cat. Rake/Claw/Shred/ravage. Rip or Ferocious Bite. 

When not from the back are claw always better than Rake?

I wonder both from a raid or 5 man and even PvP (even if i know there is no rotation, you could talk about a basic prioritazing list)

thx

As a general rule, Rake is only useful in PvP if you're worried a Rogue might vanish or someone is getting away on low HP and you want to apply further pressure and prevent them regenerating or dropping combat, otherwise, ignore it.

Leveling, you can either; start every fight in stealth, Ravage or Shred (depending on your level), slightly higher DPS, slower leveling times because of the speed decrease on stealth, slightly safer in PvP environments because you can check your surroundings while stealthed before pulling each mob. Once the mob is facing you, Claw to 5 CP and then Bite.

In Dungeons - Shred to 5CP, Bite trash mobs, Rip Bosses that have enough HP for the DoT to tick for long enough.

In Raids - Shread to 5CP, Bite everything.

For PvP, it's so much harder to say depending on class combinations, situation, etc.

Typically, keep Rake/Rip up on Rogues and other Druids who might try and Vanish escape or drop combat and stealth. Otherwise, 1v1 vs a Warrior you need to be in Bear form and simply outlast them, sensible Paladins are basically Druid immune (we'll run out of mana from powershifting long before they run out of HP or Mana unless they're noobs who blow their whole mana bar on seals/judging/consecrate), everything else you rely on Shred to 5CP and Bite to try and burst them down.

The big limiter is mana. You can powershift out of Frost Mage CC and slows etc, but most of the time, you'll run out of mana before they do, especially if you pop a rejuv between shifts etc.

We're particularly deadly in low level group PvP though. Stealth around the group, when the initial combat happens, drop stealth and drop a few heals, once you're at about 40% mana shift into Cat and hit their lowest target. Having a healer in stealth that the other group couldn't plan for is killer for world PvP.

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1 hour ago, Elicas said:

As a general rule, Rake is only useful in PvP if you're worried a Rogue might vanish or someone is getting away on low HP and you want to apply further pressure and prevent them regenerating or dropping combat, otherwise, ignore it.

Leveling, you can either; start every fight in stealth, Ravage or Shred (depending on your level), slightly higher DPS, slower leveling times because of the speed decrease on stealth, slightly safer in PvP environments because you can check your surroundings while stealthed before pulling each mob. Once the mob is facing you, Claw to 5 CP and then Bite.

In Dungeons - Shred to 5CP, Bite trash mobs, Rip Bosses that have enough HP for the DoT to tick for long enough.

In Raids - Shread to 5CP, Bite everything.

For PvP, it's so much harder to say depending on class combinations, situation, etc.

Typically, keep Rake/Rip up on Rogues and other Druids who might try and Vanish escape or drop combat and stealth. Otherwise, 1v1 vs a Warrior you need to be in Bear form and simply outlast them, sensible Paladins are basically Druid immune (we'll run out of mana from powershifting long before they run out of HP or Mana unless they're noobs who blow their whole mana bar on seals/judging/consecrate), everything else you rely on Shred to 5CP and Bite to try and burst them down.

The big limiter is mana. You can powershift out of Frost Mage CC and slows etc, but most of the time, you'll run out of mana before they do, especially if you pop a rejuv between shifts etc.

We're particularly deadly in low level group PvP though. Stealth around the group, when the initial combat happens, drop stealth and drop a few heals, once you're at about 40% mana shift into Cat and hit their lowest target. Having a healer in stealth that the other group couldn't plan for is killer for world PvP.

Thx for fast answer. 

About Raid i pretty much figure the "debuff" that its Shred+Bite. 

 

Thx for the Rake information. I do feel the dmg are "bad" to claw. I usualy use it when i know i get kited (fear/slow) or rogues. I tend to use Rip almost 90% of the time in PvP and Bite more when i see i burstopening or against cloth. 

 

Warriors i do agree i tend to use bear. But if i get the opening i often open in cat aply rip then swift bear.

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I also did enjoy watching this video regarding Feral PvE DPS rotation and specs. 

 

 

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@Elicas are Tiger's Fury a waste of energy in every situation? For me it feels that way.

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12 minutes ago, Sherekhan said:

@Elicas are Tiger's Fury a waste of energy in every situation? For me it feels that way.

Technically, at max rank it's a 40 DPS increase for 6 seconds. In an instance/raid situation it's worthless since you don't have the energy to maintain 100% buff uptime and shred effectively, in PvP when bursting you can find use for it I guess.

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7 hours ago, Elicas said:

Technically, at max rank it's a 40 DPS increase for 6 seconds. In an instance/raid situation it's worthless since you don't have the energy to maintain 100% buff uptime and shred effectively, in PvP when bursting you can find use for it I guess.

Yea in pvp it do boost a ravage out of stealth pretty good. But other than that i waste energy for 0 combopoints.

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Posted (edited)

A question about rip vs bite in pvp. Against plate/mail are rip better? And use bite only if realy low?

Edited by Sherekhan
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13 minutes ago, Sherekhan said:

A question about rip vs bite in pvp. Against plate/mail are rip better? And use bite only if realy low?

Yes, correctly functioning Rip ignores armour.

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2 hours ago, Elicas said:

Yes, correctly functioning Rip ignores armour.

But on leather and cloth Bite always better dmg?

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2 hours ago, Sherekhan said:

But on leather and cloth Bite always better dmg?

Cloth, generally yes. Leather can be hit or miss, depends on your stats and whether you crit or not.

Generally, Crit Bite > Rip > Non-Crit Bite.

They serve different objectives though, Bite is burst, Rip is sustain/pressure and bypasses armour. If you are trying to burst someone down, always go for the Bite, especially in group play. On the other hand, Rip can be great vs Rogues/Druids/Escapers as it prevents re-stealthing (along with Faerie Fire, keep that up at all times) and stops passive health regen kicking in.

Short answer: There is no hard and fast rule for PvP, it really depends on the situation.

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3 hours ago, Elicas said:

Cloth, generally yes. Leather can be hit or miss, depends on your stats and whether you crit or not.

Generally, Crit Bite > Rip > Non-Crit Bite.

They serve different objectives though, Bite is burst, Rip is sustain/pressure and bypasses armour. If you are trying to burst someone down, always go for the Bite, especially in group play. On the other hand, Rip can be great vs Rogues/Druids/Escapers as it prevents re-stealthing (along with Faerie Fire, keep that up at all times) and stops passive health regen kicking in.

Short answer: There is no hard and fast rule for PvP, it really depends on the situation.

Passive Health regen should only be effected by combat. It is possible to leave combat while having a dot on yourself.

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On 2017-05-17 at 9:07 AM, Elicas said:

Yes, correctly functioning Rip ignores armour.

If this works correctly even the Rake bleed-dot should ignore dmg. Then against plate for example i do wonder if Rake does more dmg than 1 claw.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Sherekhan said:

If this works correctly even the Rake bleed-dot should ignore dmg. Then against plate for example i do wonder if Rake does more dmg than 1 claw.

Rake does ignore armour, yet even vs plate it's still weaker than claw. With better gear the gap between claw and rake gets even bigger.

The only scenario where rake>claw might be on a naked Druid vs an almost armour capped feral tank but that's unlikely ever going to happen.

Edited by Morrasul
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53 minutes ago, Morrasul said:

Rake does ignore armour, yet even vs plate it's still weaker than claw. With better gear the gap between claw and rake gets even bigger.

The only scenario where rake>claw might be on a naked Druid vs an almost armour capped feral tank but that's unlikely ever going to happen.

Ok so Rake is pretty usless in vanilla if not on a rogue were you dont have FF to cast on the rogue? To avoid stealth that is.

Do that change later expansion were rake is a good option?

 

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56 minutes ago, Sherekhan said:

Ok so Rake is pretty usless in vanilla if not on a rogue were you dont have FF to cast on the rogue? To avoid stealth that is.

Do that change later expansion were rake is a good option?

 

Yeah rake is pretty useless. Lots of mobs are also immune to bleeds.

 

Rake becomes part of the rotation in later addons. 

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