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Sherekhan

Shaman tanking a saga

 

Hello

I been planing back and forth what i will be playing. Now i am pretty sure i will go Horde and go a Druid and a Shaman. Always liked hybrids in all games i played. But here i will focus on the shaman i plan to play. I have a long experience (10 years) playing Enhancement shaman and believe i know the spec pretty well. The nostalgia made me want to roll one again but with a twist. I been trying it out now on another server at low lvl (RFC and WC so far) and it worked well. A fun part have been the fact i had to sell into the groups 2-3 times (been doing RFC 3 times and WC 2 times) to accept me as tank and so far i haven't failed the group.

In vanilla there were some who played shaman as tanks and especially in 5 mans. There were some guys doing it in raids.

I been around looking for guides on the internet for Shaman tanking guide without success. I have some ideas myself for how it will look. But if anyone knows of a guide, some discussions about BiS, talents etc. I would be really happy to hear others ideas.

 

Ps. all you who irritate your self over people not playing optimal sepcs etc. You don't even have bother answer to this post. Ds

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There's a section here;

 

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I used to do Shaman tanking back in the day while leveling. But the moment I got to Razorfen Kraul/Scarlet Monastry you fall off so hard in terms of threat and survival-ability that it is just not viable, I only managed to tank RFK and SM due to leveling with a very good priest (who knew how to use fade :o ) and a mage that knew how to CC everything. You literally cant pull more than one mob. If you spec perfectly for it you can JUST manage up to Armory. But nowadays, you'll get laughed at by everyone so you won't get a group if you are looking to tank. 

 

Unfortuately the reason you cant find a Shaman tanking guide is because, it's crap. You have no damage reduction talents/abilities apart from stoneskin totem. While wearing leather/mail gear (depending on level). There was never any enhancement tanking in raids, I can't even think of any on my server that even did it for 5mans. Tbf it's probably cause you get one-shot and dont have any aoe threat even compared to a Warrior. 

The ONLY "viable" enhancement shaman in raids if the possiblity of going a Nightfall Enhancement Shaman with a very heavy caster composition. But even then the proc rate is terrible compared to a warrior casting hamstring, not to mention your mana problems.

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1 minute ago, Elicas said:

There's a section here;

 

Beat me to it haha!

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55 minutes ago, Elicas said:

There's a section here;

 

Thx totaly forgot about that. Sorry.... 

Then if i may ask some questions:

1. I heard that Rockbiter have a high "bonus" threat. That its higher than Maul and Heroic strike in the way it "multiply". Do you or anyone have any numbers?

2. Why no improved lightning shield for aoe aggro?

3. Elemental Warding, why not?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Eyedie said:

I used to do Shaman tanking back in the day while leveling. But the moment I got to Razorfen Kraul/Scarlet Monastry you fall off so hard in terms of threat and survival-ability that it is just not viable, I only managed to tank RFK and SM due to leveling with a very good priest (who knew how to use fade :o ) and a mage that knew how to CC everything. You literally cant pull more than one mob. If you spec perfectly for it you can JUST manage up to Armory. But nowadays, you'll get laughed at by everyone so you won't get a group if you are looking to tank. 

 

Unfortuately the reason you cant find a Shaman tanking guide is because, it's crap. You have no damage reduction talents/abilities apart from stoneskin totem. While wearing leather/mail gear (depending on level). There was never any enhancement tanking in raids, I can't even think of any on my server that even did it for 5mans. Tbf it's probably cause you get one-shot and dont have any aoe threat even compared to a Warrior. 

The ONLY "viable" enhancement shaman in raids if the possiblity of going a Nightfall Enhancement Shaman with a very heavy caster composition. But even then the proc rate is terrible compared to a warrior casting hamstring, not to mention your mana problems.

You are pretty wrong here. I playde vanilla not hard (that i did most in TBC), But there were enough Shamans tanking to go around and its absolutly doable. Warriors, Druids also have to tab between mobs. 

Edited by Sherekhan
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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Sherekhan said:

You are pretty wrong here. I playde vanilla not hard (that i did most in TBC), But there were enough Shamans tanking to go around and its absolutly doable. Warriors, Druids also have to tab between mobs. 

It's certainly not possible in a raid setting. Even Molten Core will kill you. Are we talking about the possibility of Off-tanking + enhancement dps in Dungeons? Cause it is certainly possible to equip a shield with Rockbiter and take one mob, specially when considering the potential to kite aswell with earthbind/Earth Shock (since Earth Shock deals extra threat). If we look at Main Tanking a Stratholme,  I just don't see it statistically. You lack so much armor, even with 5/5 toughness etc. Also the lack of Shield Block and Cooldowns to help you survive in moments of panic (Shield Wall, Challenging Roar, BoPing the Healer/mage to name a few to prevent a wipe on a bad pull).

Warriors and Druids have a lot more capability to survive before needing that first heal (which gives you more time to build up AoE threat) due to having a higher HP pool/mitigation from Bearform/Defensive Stance + the possible gear pickups.  While also Warriors/Druids have Demo Shout which ok, Battle Shout on bow pull is 55 threat per application aswell making up to 275 threat. You also lack a taunt - which is absolutely huge for not having to worry about building threat on *skull*. Also earning 1 point of Rage gives 5 threat to each mob, without doing anything (bloodrage on pull?) Yes ok you have Lightning Shield, but you'll be OOM after casting that 2-3 times in a fight (it costs 400mana - you'll be lucky to have over 3.5k?). Also it deals zero threat to casters (because melee will take the stacks) and its casters that are bastards to worry about. 

Not to mention you'll be OOM after each pull without mana potions etc with you. So you'll be incredibly slow for the group, never mind how much focus the healer will have to give you that ANY aoe on the dps will kill them or you. He cant keep the tanking shaman AND dps up as Shamans have zero +defence skill while also there is no gear for them to acquire that gives them that. Except 20 def from the mail chest in BRD arena (epic one)

In the end though, this can only be proven through testing. I haven't done any Shaman tanking for over 10years but theorycrafting-wise. It won't, specially for people just dinging 60. But as with everything, go out and prove me wrong. If you do so, congratulations. 

Edited by Eyedie
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And then TBC came and Blizzard cruelly laughed at all aspiring enha tanks by adding this talent:

http://tbc.openwow.com/spell=16268

WHY WOULD YOU INTRODUCE A TALENT THAT GOES AGAINST ITSELF
And those fuckers left the bonus dodge talent in there until wotlk and changed the armor talent to stamina... which is still tanky! And that talent went on to Cata! The mockery of enha tanks never ends.

Even rogue tanks are more succesful (on TBC at least).

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7 hours ago, Xaverius said:

And then TBC came and Blizzard cruelly laughed at all aspiring enha tanks by adding this talent:

http://tbc.openwow.com/spell=16268

WHY WOULD YOU INTRODUCE A TALENT THAT GOES AGAINST ITSELF
And those fuckers left the bonus dodge talent in there until wotlk and changed the armor talent to stamina... which is still tanky! And that talent went on to Cata! The mockery of enha tanks never ends.

Even rogue tanks are more succesful (on TBC at least).

You mean like this?

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spell=20127

Shit talents are a Blizzlike staple.

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I can see it being viable up through the 20s, maybe into 30s, but past that... I don't know. The damage elites do ramps up so much after that, it would be pretty slow going. I've never played shaman, but I have played a ton of hunter, and I know I couldn't take a group of more than 2 or 3 dungeon mobs hitting me and expect to live, even with an amazing healer. But hey, I'm all for trying out things that shouldn't work. Especially in vanilla, there are such a wide array of things you can do to get around the meta that formed later. The problem though, is that a lot of people are now so used to the standard roles that you'll need to find a specific group of people/guild that are ok with you shaman tanking and stick with them while you're leveling.

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I totaly agree with you that its not optimal. But as @Elicas use to say it is viable. In 5 man people have successfully tanked as shamans in vanilla. And that is more what i aimed to do. Have some more fun during lvling than just the usual dps or healing. I have tried only low lvl dungeons now and done it without a whipe with randoms. I know that RFC, WC, SFK and BFD are not proven anything. But i see the posibility if you se to it that you have 1 mage in the group so you can cc 1 target. And when i say "se the posibility" i don't delude my self of raid and there is no such intention at my part. This is strictly leveling. 

At that low lvl i have tanked 3 elite-targets at most and that ofc is stretching it but 2 is easy. When it comes to stats and itemization i stack stamina and i think thats the way to go earlie and then i say agility, Inteligence and then strength. When it comes to armor the Shield gives alot of armor to the carcter so comparing with hunter (@Retrac47) are not fair because shield is like the same armor value as the whole body in leather. 

I do understand the scepticism from other players and i need to sell it in to them. People don't want to whipe. But when it comes to mana to sit and drink etc i would say Shamans are not wors than Tankadins. 

So yes i know it's hard to get a group, its not optimal, but it is viable. People did do it in vanilla and its not like saying rogues can tank also.

 

Btw about TBC @Xaveriusyea that talent is stupid. But in earlie TBC Shamans were actualy tanking a bit and i did read about Karazan (can be wrong here). But they did in dungeons. I think there were like a talent change or somthing. 

 

So i will do it as fun. As side project to my Druid. Why, i play Enhancement for almost 10 years. I love the class but done all 3 specs. I wan't a Shaman and i want a challange. 

 

 

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