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slipryyyy

policy on multiboxing?

54 posts in this topic

Are you guys going to allow multiboxing?  Extremely cancerous part of WoW that will be even worse on a server with a 4K pop limit

You need to warn once then ban all multiboxers like nostalrius did or people will abuse it, "discouraging" it is not enough

 


 

Edited by slipryyyy
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The forum set-up here (as I found out) is pretty neat in responding to particular enquiries. So if you type ''multiboxing'' in the search bar you'll get relevant results like:

 

Which gives us this quote:

Quote

Similarly, we're capping accounts per IP address and taking other anti-multiboxing steps so the players who are online won't be able to run 5 clients concurrently, artificially inflating the population again.

 Not doing this to be a smart arse. Just being helpful. In my opinion, multiboxing will be actively discouraged based on what I've read.

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See also the FAQ regarding this matter:

Quote

Q.  What's your position on multiboxing?

A.   Due to it's detrimental effect on the game economy and player experience, multiboxing is discouraged.  It would be simple to only allow one connection per IP, but that would keep roommates, families, or friends in the same home from being able to play together.  It is likely that we will rely on a combination of capping the number of connections per IP at a reasonable number, reports from players in-game, and punitive measures for offenders.

Greeting,

sOolOs

Edited by sOolOs
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8 minutes ago, slipryyyy said:

Feedback & Suggestions

 

? I'm giving some feedback on their "discouragement"

I don't need links to their stance on it man

Yes, and your feedback got an answer. Multiple infact. Look, the fact is that even in retail where you have to pay monthy for EACH account, multiboxing is still a thing. In the private server scene it's either letting it slide or (as mentioned by the devs here) disallowing multiple accounts from the same IP which will also be inconvenient to many with no intentions to multibox. It's a lose/lose situation as far as I know. 

 

Or y'know, I could be wrong. From my not-as-informed perspective it's that simple. Perhaps there's a lot more to be said on the topic by those that have a deeper understanding. 

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Ah, sorry about that. Lost in translation. So your question is really how Crestfall is going to eradicate or ban multiboxing. It's likely not the most critical things on their minds but let's see if they @Darkrasp want to elaborate... 

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11 hours ago, slipryyyy said:

Are you guys going to allow multiboxing?  Extremely cancerous part of WoW that will be even worse on a server with a 4K pop limit

You need to warn once then ban all multiboxers like nostalrius did or people will abuse it, "discouraging" it is not enough

 


 

Well, to be fair to the guys above the first part of your post was actually a question, which they answered. If you already knew their stance why would you ask the question? Only the second part of your post was feedback.

As to which, they can't automate the banning process of all multiboxers through ip bans etc. since it would disrupt people like my wife and I who will be playing 2 accounts from one IP. Similarly it would knacker people running bank accounts etc. They'll have to do it the old fashioned way, reports and banning repeat offenders.

Just like they said in the quotes provided by @Outstanding and @sOolOs.

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InB4 "...but hey, these are my little brothers following me around."

 

There is really no way to avoid "multibox abusing", once you permit "multiaccount".

The only real way is 1account/1ip and even with it there are multiple ways to abuse "multiboxing", like fake-brothers, VPNs, proxies, etc.

 

Another matter is about all the logic behind "I just use multiple accounts for banking".

I often read about how multiboxing should be prohibit/banned, because on retail you had to pay every single account. Well doesn't the same logic apply to "bank accounts"? It does.

Why can you "just back account", while I cannot "multibox"?

Yes, I'm a multiboxer and I really enjoy multiboxing...and yet, I just can read about how unfair/gamebreaking multiboxing is. Well, it's not.

Multiboxing is A LOT of work, it's a game on its own and yet because it doesn't suites your playstyle it should be banned, "because on retail you had to pay for EVERY SINGLE account".

Still, your bank-accounts are fine, right? What about all of your "scout accounts"? Your "Portals account"? Your "Soulstone accounts"? Are these fine? Sure they are (cause they suite your needs).

 

Wanna say it once more:

If you accept multi-accounts, then you have to accept multi-boxing as well...or where is your coherence?

 

SIDE NOTE:

I can understand very well that in World PvP, arenas and BGs multiboxing can be overpowered.

Just prohibit PvP-Multiboxing and be done with it.

Edited by mrmr
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26 minutes ago, mrmr said:

InB4 "...but hey, these are my little brothers following me around."

 

There is really no way to avoid "multibox abusing", once you permit "multiaccount".

The only real way is 1account/1ip and even with it there are multiple ways to abuse "multiboxing", like fake-brothers, VPNs, proxies, etc.

 

Another matter is about all the logic behind "I just use multiple accounts for banking".

I often read about how multiboxing should be prohibit/banned, because on retail you had to pay every single account. Well doesn't the same logic apply to "bank accounts"? It does.

Why can you "just back account", while I cannot "multibox"?

Yes, I'm a multiboxer and I really enjoy multiboxing...and yet, I just can read about how unfair/gamebreaking multiboxing is. Well, it's not.

Multiboxing is A LOT of work, it's a game on its own and yet because it doesn't suites your playstyle it should be banned, "because on retail you had to pay for EVERY SINGLE account".

Still, your bank-accounts are fine, right? What about all of your "scout accounts"? Your "Portals account"? Your "Soulstone accounts"? Are these fine? Sure they are (cause they suite your needs).

 

Wanna say it once more:

If you accept multi-accounts, then you have to accept multi-boxing as well...or where is your coherence?

 

SIDE NOTE:

I can understand very well that in World PvP, arenas and BGs multiboxing can be overpowered.

Just prohibit PvP-Multiboxing and be done with it.

See, that's one of the big problems with multiboxing/using mutliple accounts. Mixed intentions. Yes, the same logic could apply to bank accounts. However, do bank accounts disrupt the social aspect of the game? Not quite. Yes, I am bothered by the fact that while I do my best to gather a team of actual players (and enjoying the process) someone else just tinkers with some files or whatever multiboxing is all about and, boom, done. Yes, perhaps on a technical level it's not so much of a problem, however, for those that care about the social aspect of the game it CAN and as you can see in many cases IS a problem. Not to mention that if multiboxing was to generally be considered okay by the Pserver community it would become a standard. 

"Hey, why aren't you max level yet?"

"Well, this is vanilla. It takes a while to get to max level. It's challenging and takes some time."

"Pssh, what? You aren't multiboxing? Everyone else is doing it."

 

That's how I see it at the very least. Feel free to disregard it as jibberish since I've never really spoke on the matter before. 

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Just now, VeloxBanks said:

"Hey, why aren't you max level yet?"

"Well, this is vanilla. It takes a while to get to max level. It's challenging and takes some time."

"Pssh, what? You aren't multiboxing? Everyone else is doing it."

This is another part of the problem with all the hate vs multiboxers.

Multiboxing doesn't give you an edge on levelling.

While levelling a single toon to lvl60, on a "blizzlike" server takes around 4/5/6 days /played, multiboxing will take lot longer.

 

Last time I could multibox was on Emerald Dream and took my 5 toons party around 13days to get to lvl58 (yes, 57...I played them normally after that). A single toon could do it in like 3 days and a half (/played), considering all the exploitable bugs on the server.

After that, I tried a 3box party and took them around 12days /played.

Really, that's not the issue.

 

On a side note, about your "community" concerns...the only time you're going to skip the community, while multiboxing, is when you gonna do these "party" quests.

You should know well enough that gathering the people for these take quite some time and sometimes you will even skip these.

That's another reason because I like multiboxing....you can really go try and do many quests you probably never did before.

 

About "Instances", you may think you can solo them all while multiboxing....well, you probably can....still you will wipe so many times it wouldn't even be fun (or fast), unless you overlevel them and at that point why would you even do that?

What I did on Emerald Dream was joining these "community" runs with one toon only, most of the times....seldom with a couple, so the group could get going (healer is usually nobrainer while multiboxing vanilla). In that respect I think I kinda "helped" the community, filling up the empty spot/spots.

 

Sorry again, but the disinformation level on this subject makes me mad.

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4 minutes ago, mrmr said:

This is another part of the problem with all the hate vs multiboxers.

Multiboxing doesn't give you an edge on levelling.

While levelling a single toon to lvl60, on a "blizzlike" server takes around 4/5/6 days /played, multiboxing will take lot longer.

 

Last time I could multibox was on Emerald Dream and took my 5 toons party around 13days to get to lvl58 (yes, 57...I played them normally after that). A single toon could do it in like 3 days and a half (/played), considering all the exploitable bugs on the server.

After that, I tried a 3box party and took them around 12days /played.

Really, that's not the issue.

 

On a side note, about your "community" concerns...the only time you're going to skip the community, while multiboxing, is when you gonna do these "party" quests.

You should know well enough that gathering the people for these take quite some time and sometimes you will even skip these.

That's another reason because I like multiboxing....you can really go try and do many quests you probably never did before.

 

About "Instances", you may think you can solo them all while multiboxing....well, you probably can....still you will wipe so many times it wouldn't even be fun (or fast), unless you overlevel them and at that point why would you even do that?

What I did on Emerald Dream was joining these "community" runs with one toon only, most of the times....seldom with a couple, so the group could get going (healer is usually nobrainer while multiboxing vanilla). In that respect I think I kinda "helped" the community, filling up the empty spot/spots.

 

Sorry again, but the disinformation level on this subject makes me mad.

As a matter of fact the quests are part of my concern. Yes, there have been times where I skipped a quest or tried again later because I couldn't get a team for it. I accepted my failures and accepted that as an aspect of the game. After all it makes the game feel more alive. I suggest we just agree to disagree, accept whatever side the devs take on the subject (atleast that's what I'm gonna do) and move along. If multiboxing becomes fully allowed I'll do my best to not care. I hope you won't mind if it it becomes bannable aswell. In the end one of the parties will be unhappy.

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I don't really mind if multiboxing will be banned/prohibited (I wouldn't 5box anymore anyway, at most 2/3 toons together) and I'm not here asking for it to be permitted either.

My real concern here is all about "multiaccounting".

From our previous "pserver" experiences we should well know how exploitable multiaccounting is.

 

"Azuregos/Nightmare'sDragons scouting" anyone?

"BlackLotus multifarming" anyone? (I know this wont' be possible on this server...)

"40men-raid Soulstoned" anyone?

"MultiMage Portals service" anyone?

 

I could even go further and say that multiaccounting is much more gamebreaking/exploitable than multiboxing itself.

Now please, go pay for your twelve warlocks/rogues/mages accounts.

Edited by mrmr
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6 hours ago, sOolOs said:

Q.  What's your position on multiboxing?

A.   Due to it's detrimental effect on the game economy and player experience, multiboxing is discouraged.  It would be simple to only allow one connection per IP, but that would keep roommates, families, or friends in the same home from being able to play together.  It is likely that we will rely on a combination of capping the number of connections per IP at a reasonable number, reports from players in-game, and punitive measures for offenders.

I assume that this means that multiboxing generally won't be allowed at all, since players can report other players that do it and such

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This is also an issue for the PvP server to really argue over/agree on more than the PvE server. It doesn't affect us as much as them.

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Wow, lots of discussion on this and some good points.

Our current intention is to cap accounts per IP at two.  If you have a roommate or a spouse who wants to play with you, that's fine.  Multiboxing will be against the rules, and for the time being, other players will be able to report suspected multiboxers. 

The feeling is, kept to two accounts, the damage that multiboxing/multiaccounting can do to the server economy is minimal.  If multiboxing is a bigger problem, we can expand our server-side anti-cheat to detect simultaneous inputs or flag characters/accounts that stay on "follow" for long periods of time.  There are a few ways to do it, but we hope players will be mature about it and not force our hand.

In terms of why we are outlawing the practice, many points above are valid.  I did some 2-account multiboxing a long time ago, and while I didn't do it for long, the benefits are immediately obvious.  A permanent pocket healer lets you accomplish things you couldn't dream of doing solo, increases grinding speed and loot generation by a huge percentage.  Yeah, you're sharing experience, but you can effectively get double the loot in the same period of time.  It also discourages the social aspect of the game by allowing you to bypass things that you should have to make friends for.  That's where the fun happens, and if we're anything, we're pro-fun.  The benefits of multiboxing when in world and battleground PvP cannot be overstated.  No single player can overcome a 5-box mage or warlock squad, can't even survive long enough to get into melee range.  The potential to dominate world resources, reputation grinding spots, or artificially influence battleground results is there.  The idea of banning multiboxing for PvP only is unfortunately not really a possibility, because none of the countermeasures we could apply to using it in PvP would be able to differentiate based on player intention.. we have to look at concrete data (simultaneous inputs, follow timers, login data, etc.)

Multiaccounting has a different set of problems, as mrmr mentioned, and a few he did not.  A regular account allows (I believe) 8 characters.  That's enough for a main, an alt, one or two bank alts (especially in Vanilla before GBanks), and some "scouts".  Adding a second account gives you enough character slots to have an alt logged out at a dozen important checkpoints.  Not just Azuregos, Kazzak, and a few Green Dragons, but black lotus spawns, rich thorium spawns, the DM arena, etc.  It's behavior that's done because it's profitable, even though it's kind of disingenuous and kills the fun of finding something valuable organically.  In addition to that, allowing infinite accounts fails to discourage toxic players who get banned, since they can always just make another throwaway level 1 account and hop right back on the server to resume their toxic behavior.  With a two account maximum, it means two strikes and you're out.

Is it possible to use proxies to get multiple IPs, yes.  There will be some people dedicated enough to cheating that they'll go all-out in order to beat the system, and for those cases we're going to rely on player reports and server-side anti-cheat.

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You should really rephrase that sentence. When something is discouraged it doesn't involve a penalty (ban).

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8 minutes ago, Frost said:

You should really rephrase that sentence. When something is discouraged it doesn't involve a penalty (ban).

Good point.  FAQ is updated.  Thanks.

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What if we are 3? We won't be able to play together? I know 3 players from the same IP are rare but they still exist

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1 hour ago, Nokkius said:

What if we are 3? We won't be able to play together? I know 3 players from the same IP are rare but they still exist

I don't know how IP works, but i'm almost sure every computer has his own IP even on same network.

My guess is you just can't play on same computer/laptop at same time.

:~ Can be wrong. In my home I can turn 4 laptops/pc and they are all different IP, on same network.

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To anyone outside of your network it will appear as you are on the same IP

Edit: More than one person playing on the same IP isn't multiboxing and thus allowed. 

Edited by Frost
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5 minutes ago, Odysseu said:

I don't know how IP works, but i'm almost sure every computer has his own IP even on same network.

My guess is you just can't play on same computer/laptop at same time.

:~ Can be wrong. In my home I can turn 4 laptops/pc and they are all different IP, on same network.

The IPs you're referring to are your local IPs, and they usually start with 192.168 our 10.0. All of your computers are connected via a modem to the internet. The internet essentially gives your modem an IP when it connects, and this is your external IP. When you connect to something on the net (eg WoW) the WoW server only sees your external IP, no matter which laptop/pc you connect with.

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39 minutes ago, prostheus said:

The IPs you're referring to are your local IPs, and they usually start with 192.168 our 10.0. All of your computers are connected via a modem to the internet. The internet essentially gives your modem an IP when it connects, and this is your external IP. When you connect to something on the net (eg WoW) the WoW server only sees your external IP, no matter which laptop/pc you connect with.

Well. Dnt know if its the case here, becasue when I log in a TS in all devices together, the IP on Client Info is different for each one.

It is suppose to be different or the same? saame thing on rts online (Age of Empires 3, SC2). They show different IP for each computer. O.o 

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8 hours ago, Odysseu said:

Well. Dnt know if its the case here, becasue when I log in a TS in all devices together, the IP on Client Info is different for each one.

It is suppose to be different or the same? saame thing on rts online (Age of Empires 3, SC2). They show different IP for each computer. O.o 

It depends how they are connected to the net. If you Google "what is my ip" on each one and they all result in a different ip address, then I guess each laptop has its own internet connection!

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18 minutes ago, prostheus said:

It depends how they are connected to the net. If you Google "what is my ip" on each one and they all result in a different ip address, then I guess each laptop has its own internet connection!

yeah. it is different xD 

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4 hours ago, Odysseu said:

yeah. it is different xD 

Are they all connected to the same router/modem through wifi and/or a cable? If they are, then your isp assigns each device a unique IP address, which is odd since IPv4 addresses are about to be all used up. 

Edited by rooted
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