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Elicas

Leveling Efficiently - Which finisher and when?

Much smaller than usual "mini-guide" incoming, moderate amount of math incoming.

Googledoc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19ine4BKMJNblDIvD0ZneMQwOvBrZR5MPtTzAHIMuZc8/edit?usp=sharing

What is the most efficient way to level a feral Druid when it comes to optimizing your damage output and finisher selection? The above table presumes an untalented 45 energy cost Claw, as well as an untalented Ferocious Bite (FB). It uses pure baseline numbers only. This post presumes that you are fighting 1v1 and wont be able to shred on demand, and that you will be playing without powershifting.

That's reasonably simple.

Presuming we have a Druid at high enough level to use each ability, we'll use 0 AP to make the math nice and easy. Rip should not be affected by armour, it will always do straight damage. FB and Claw are affected by armour, and their damage will be increased by Faerie Fire (Feral).

Q1: Is there ever a time where Claw is better than a 1 point FB?

Short Answer: From an energy usage standpoint, no, from a damage standpoint, yes.

FB will always do more damage per point of energy spent when you compare FB damage to the bonus damage awarded by the Claw ability. However, when comparing pure damage, when you add in the native white damage from Claw, Claw will always do more damage than a 1CP Bite.

If we take a level 60 Druid, with all skill levels, and presume they do an average white hit of 200 damage;

(200+115) = 315/45 = 7 damage per energy point spent with Claw R5.
229/35 = 6.54 damage per energy spent with FB rank 5 at 35 energy.

Q2: Is it better to pool my energy and use FB at 100 energy, or to use it straight away at 35 energy?

Short Answer: Use it sooner and don't waste the pooled energy.

Long Answer: The additional damage from bonus energy is always better off used towards generating more combo points, unless the mob will die before you can use one more ability.

Illustrating with rank 5 FB with 5CPs;

35 energy FB: 817/35 = 23.34 damage per energy spent.
50 energy FB: (817+40.5)/50 = 17.15 damage per energy spent.
75 energy FB: (817+108)/75 = 12.33 damage per energy spent.
100 energy FB: (817+175.5) = 9.925 damage per energy spent.

As you can see, the damage gained compared to the energy spent significantly diminishes the more energy you pool to use with FB.

To go from 35 to 100 energy takes 3.25 ticks. As you need to wait for a whole tick to complete to gain energy, that pushes it to 4 ticks, or 8 seconds, to wait to pool to 100, with 15 energy 'wasted' by going over the 100 energy cap. That 8 seconds gains you 175.5 damage on your FB. Using the above example Druid, that's less bonus damage than 1 melee swing.

Q3: Rip or FB?

Short Answer: R2 Rip > R1 FB, otherwise FB if both skills are within one level of each other.

Long Answer: Typically, a Rip requires all 6 ticks to do rougly equal damage to a FB before 4CP's, or 5 ticks to equal a 4+CP FB, until you get FB rank 3. Rip ticks every 2 seconds, isn't affected by mob armour and cannot crit. FB is affected by mob armour, but can crit, as a melee damage ability for 200% damage. From FB R2 - FB R4, FB remains demonstrably ahead. Rip Doesn't catch up again until R6/R5 comparison. It is important to remember R5 FB is leaned from a book and not available at server launch.

Rip R2 vs FB R1;

1CP: 58/11 = 5.27 ticks to equal a 1CP FB. 2CP: 5.22 ticks to equal a 2CP FB. 3CP: 5.2 ticks to equal a 3CP FB. 4CP: 5.187 ticks to equal a 4CP FB. 5CP: 5.17 ticks to equal a 5CP FB.

As you can see from the above, a R2 Rip will always need full duration to equal an equivalent CP FB. However, as you level, the gap closes.

Rip R3 vs FB R2;

1CP: 91/15 = 6.066 ticks to equal a 1CP FB. 2CP: 6.25 ticks to equal a 2CP FB. 3CP: 6.33 ticks to equal a 3CP FB. 4CP: 6.38 ticks to equal a 4CP FB. 5CP: 6.41 ticks to equal a 5CP FB.

Rip R4 vs FB R3;

1CP: 142/23 = 6.17 ticks to equal a 1CP FB. 2CP: 6.32 ticks to equal a 2CP FB. 3CP: 6.39 ticks to equal a 3CP FB. 4CP: 6.43 ticks to equal a 4CP FB. 5CP: 6.45 ticks to equal a 5CP FB.

Rip R6 vs FB R5;

1CP: 229/45 = 5.088 ticks to equal a 1CP FB. 2CP: 5.15 ticks to equal a 2CP FB. 3CP: 5.17 ticks to equal a 3CP FB. 4CP: 5.19 ticks to equal a 4CP FB. 5CP: 5.20 ticks to equal a 5CP FB.

The only times to prioritize Rip over FB is if

a) You can't maintain melee range and need to back off to heal/bandage/LoS an ability (mainly PvP)
b) Your opponent has huge amounts of armour, significantly reducing your physical damage dealt.

In all other situations, a FB will give more damage in every fight that does not last more than 10 seconds. If the fight does last more than 10 seconds, Rip will do slightly more damage than the average 5 CP FB. If FB crits, it is always better than the equivalent CP Rip. 

The other important factor to bear in mine, is that as you level you get the skills at different levels, Rip usually being ~4 levels before FB. In these cases, the higher level Rip is usually the better choice. To illustrate;

From level 36-39, Rip R3 vs FB R1;

1CP: 58/15 = 3.86 ticks to equal a 1CP FB. 2CP: 3.91 ticks to equal a 2CP FB. 3CP: 3.93 ticks to equal a 3CP FB. 4CP: 3.95 ticks to equal a 4CP FB. 5CP: 3.96 ticks to equal a 5CP FB.

As you can see here, Rip only needs to tick 4 times (8 seconds) to do more damage than the equivalent CP FB non crit.

TL:DR - Faerie Fire (Feral) > Ferocious Bite > Rip > Claw to 5 CP if Rip/FB are within one level of each other.

This has been added to my main guide as an additional chapter. This post is merely for visibility.

Edited by Elicas
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On 30.3.2017 at 8:36 PM, Elicas said:

If we take a level 60 Druid, with all skill levels, and presume they do an average white hit of 200 damage;

(200+115) = 315/45 = 7 damage per energy point spent with Claw R5.
229/35 = 6.54 damage per energy spent with FB rank 5 at 35 energy.

I think an average white hit of 200 dmg is too much. Especially in early gear/progression stages.

 

My lvl 60 Druid with blue dungeon gear (Str/Agi) has ~145 White Dmg (with natural weapons).

 

This would change your calculation: 145 + 115 = 260 / 45 = ~5,77

 

If we take in Ferocity we would have 260 / 40 = 6,5 ( I think during leveling Ferocity is the more likely talent to pick as it smoothes bear tanking in leveling dungeons)

 

That would make them fairly even.

Edited by Morrasul
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13 hours ago, Morrasul said:

I think an average white hit of 200 dmg is too much. Especially in early gear/progression stages.

My lvl 60 Druid with blue dungeon gear (Str/Agi) has ~145 White Dmg (with natural weapons).

This would change your calculation: 145 + 115 = 260 / 45 = ~5,77

If we take in Ferocity we would have 260 / 40 = 6,5 ( I think during leveling Ferocity is the more likely talent to pick as it smoothes bear tanking in leveling dungeons)

That would make them fairly even.

As with anything, the answer to "what is the correct choice for X" usually depends on the situation and the gear available.

Theoretically I could put together a naked comparison for every level, but it would be prohibitively time intensive.

You're overriding point is correct though, the lower your white damage, the closer the two skills perform. As you gear up, FB becomes worse, until you reach end game, where FB will always be better.

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