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AverageS

Opinions on prot soloing/dungeon tanking at 60

I decided to think of an alternative to the old 31/5/15 hybrid spec that most warriors use for soloing/dungeon tanking early in vanilla, since I am not really a fan of using 2h (I just find it more fun to play with sword&shield, 2hs are too slow for me), I figured I'd benefit more (as in, have more fun lol) from speccing towards prot and its 1h specialization + shield slam, then speccing into arms until I got Impale. Looking back at it this is basically just the impale prot spec that some people use but with a small twist!

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LVhbbhbZcZxizsx0dVo

Alternatively, I could also just ditch the 2h spec in arms completely and replace it with sword spec and have the hybrid build follow as normal but working with a 1h+shield:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LVGxdhboxkVZxwzc

So really what I'd like to hear are opinions from you more experienced players on which of these options would be best for my playstyle.

This is all with pre-raid without BiS soloing/dungeon tanking in mind, I'll definitely replace this with something more efficient for dedicated raiding (likely 8/5/38) once I get the gear for it...

Thanks in advance :)

Edited by AverageS
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On 11.04.2017 at 3:20 AM, AverageS said:

So really what I'd like to hear are opinions from you more experienced players on which of these options would be best for my playstyle.

Ok so... I understand that You are going to level up as fury or arms (something like 20/31/0 or 31/20/0) and then you are going to respec to 31/5/15 or 17/3/31.

1. About 31/5/15:
a) why do you need imp. revenge?
b) there's no shield block 1/3 (why?)
c) you get toughness over anticipaton (why?)
d) you get imp. hamstring 1/3 (why?)
e) where's the point of getting mortal strike if you wanna play 1h-sword + shield as dungeon tank?

2. About 17/3/31:
a) imp revenge again, why do you need it...
b) imp shiled wall 2/2 for dungeons but imp sunder armor 0/3
c) I dont get why deep wounds/impale are so good for tanking
d) also about "c" - 2% less critical chance (cruelty 3/5 insead of 5/5) gives you 2% chance to apply deep wounds/impale

Also, you didn't explain if you wanna play full pve or pvp/pve and what role you wanna take there.

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http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LVMxzZmZEbzse0zio

 

Overpower conflicts with Revenge to some extent. Overpower with a 1h tickles, same with Deep Wounds. Impale isn't all that great without a decent crit rate to support it. The extra rage from Imp Charge is great for soloing. 5/5 TM is huge for tanking, soloing and PvP. Imp Sunder is one of the better talents in the prot tree for 5 mans, also useful for soloing.

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On 4/12/2017 at 5:28 PM, Zaroua said:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LVMxzZmZEbzse0zio

 

Overpower conflicts with Revenge to some extent. Overpower with a 1h tickles, same with Deep Wounds. Impale isn't all that great without a decent crit rate to support it. The extra rage from Imp Charge is great for soloing. 5/5 TM is huge for tanking, soloing and PvP. Imp Sunder is one of the better talents in the prot tree for 5 mans, also useful for soloing.

Oh yea I wasn't aware of that when I made the build. But Overpower so far seems to hurt pretty decently with the 1h I'm using, not as high as a 2h of course but still decent. I'm aware of the other things you mentioned but wasn't sure of what would be the best approach here.

On 4/12/2017 at 0:15 PM, duzyizly said:

Ok so... I understand that You are going to level up as fury or arms (something like 20/31/0 or 31/20/0) and then you are going to respec to 31/5/15 or 17/3/31.

1. About 31/5/15:
a) why do you need imp. revenge?
b) there's no shield block 1/3 (why?)
c) you get toughness over anticipaton (why?)
d) you get imp. hamstring 1/3 (why?)
e) where's the point of getting mortal strike if you wanna play 1h-sword + shield as dungeon tank?

2. About 17/3/31:
a) imp revenge again, why do you need it...
b) imp shiled wall 2/2 for dungeons but imp sunder armor 0/3
c) I dont get why deep wounds/impale are so good for tanking
d) also about "c" - 2% less critical chance (cruelty 3/5 insead of 5/5) gives you 2% chance to apply deep wounds/impale

Also, you didn't explain if you wanna play full pve or pvp/pve and what role you wanna take there.

a) I like the stun, and it's proccing pretty often for me at least. I feel it compensates for the fact I don't hit as hard as a 2h when I solo and dungeon mobs are still vulnerable to it.

b)I overlooked that actually, I swear I had it there.

c)More rage, since I'm not doing raids I felt the extra defense wouldn't benefit me as much?

d)The more I look at it the more it feels like a mistake, yes.

e)Hits harder than Slam, but I haven't gotten the set bonus from the Might set yet (on Elysium) to see if Slam would be the best option here.

Won't comment on the second build since I feel like I messed up hard on that one after reading what you said so scratch that!

So to rephrase my first post, I would like to see if there's a way to make a sort of Arms/Prot hybrid that works, with my lack of a decent 2h and just not enjoying using them in the first place, and knowing that prot has a very specific purpose I felt this would help make me a bit more versatile.

Edited by AverageS
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You need imp sunder until AQ gear.

You need very specific threat per second gear paired with a lot of agility to justify impale spec, and be able to maintain world buffs throughout a raid.

Can't get more than 3/5 if reaching both impale and shield slam.

Shield Slam does more damage than Mortal Strike 1h.  Block Value scales 1:1.

Mortal Strike is bad threat per rage, requiring more use of your 15 rage Sunders.  Where as I can shield slam + cleave and do more threat, more damage, with less rage.

Mortal Strike spec doesn't get imp 1h, limiting incoming rage on white hit, negating any weapon specialization.

Take anticipation talents so you can gear +hit % on two addition gear slots (rings).  Yet maintain the ability to hit Def cap if ever needed.

Imp Taunt allows for you to be able to hold a mob with challenging shout or mocking blow and taunt again before losing it. (If taunt resist).

TL;DR

Just go with standard tank spec.  Pick up a weapon with a proc.

 

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http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LVzhZVVdM0xoZVbuMfMz

 

Thought I'd give you another thought in addition to the couple great ideas already mentioned.  I think this build is plenty good tanking wise for pre-raiding builds while maintaining enough of a damage presence to make solo play not want to pull your hair out.  Obviously shield slam isn't included.  While a great resource in tanking, in all honesty it just isn't needed in 5 mans.  Huge threat generator, no doubt, but especially if you plan on doing a lot of solo in between tanking, you are going to want a little extra oomph. 

Well, let's address the elephant in the room first....

Prot: You have to have anticipation, especially before you're at the 440 cap.  But even then, it frees you up for other gear if you use that 10 to take you to 440.  No compromise on this one lol, you will take it!!  :)

Almost everyone else will tell you to take shield specialization, and you can it isn't a bad skill as it leads to threat generation early in the encounter.  But the deal is here is that you want to also do solo stuff. So what can we leave off the list that isn't essential?  you can cut this because you are giving up 6 points for a little rage (which I make up for you elsewhere) and more chances to use revenge which you will probably be getting all the time anyway because you will have like 40% or whatever chance to dodge, block or parry without this skill.  Or, you can cut defiance, iron will as well as a point in improved revenge and take the shield points but the thing is this, you want to cut out of the prot tree after the bare minimum (which is getting concussion blow) and you need last stand and improved sunder armor.  The most benefit to your solo play is to take some stun resist in Iron Will, your two points in Improved bloodrage, then take Last Stand. 

Get Improved Revenge for the stun%, some constant threat generation to help you out with 2 points in Defiance.   Take your mandatory Improved Sunder Armor, and to help make up for losing some of that early pull threat, Improved Taunt should help with controlling the crown.  Finally, Concussive BLow  for more control.  Honestly, this should cut it as far as threat generation, especially with improved taunt.  You can generate enough threat to tank any 5 man instance with this build.  You give up some survivability really, but threat wise you should be ok most all the time.

Fury:  Cruelty and Unbridled wrath to start.  That helps with rage generation because you will want to be using a faster weapon while tanking with this build.  You will be loaded with rage I promise so tons of rage for sunders.  The Improved Cleave is nice, you can make a macro to switch to a big heavy 1h when using this skill to maximize the return. Improved Battle Shout since you will be using this ability anyway, so take the buff. 

Now this is the interesting part of the build.  Piercing howl is a good skill to get away when on your own and something sneaks up on you.  In tanking with a hybrid build you can use it in all sorts of interesting ways.  I'll give you one way to use it that will help you maximize your group control and you can be creative and find ways that you like to use it.  So you make the pull, get some initial threat on target one (sunders and revenge), spread some threat around the the other 2 or 3 mobs.  Put just enough threat on 1 of them that they won't leave for healing aggro right away, but might leave in say 6-8 seconds from now, so like 2 sunders, or 1 sunder and 1 revenge or something then just focus on gaining threat on the rest of the group knowing that one guy will break off towards your healer in a bit.  Now, your healer should be a decent ways away from you, 20 yards or whatever.  When that one breaks off from the group, let it go.  keep up threat generation on the rest of the group.  When that mob gets close enough to your healer, cast Piercing howl and intercept the one that broke off (you can make a macro that does all this for you on the same button).  Taunt him for the free threat, drop a few sunders and now he is yours.  The rest of the enemy group is moving at 50% speed towards you (because you should have enough threat built up to maintain aggro) so you get all this free time taking hardly any damage while your group is beating the mobs down and your healer doesn't have to heal.  it creates a window of 6 or 7 seconds of no damage taken, healer maintains mana pool, DPS can continue taking down the group and by the time the mobs get to you, your taunt is back up because you took those points in the prot tree.  Just using a strategy like this will make up for a lot of what you lose by not going full prot spec and give you the extra damage to make your solo play smoother.  When I went full raid spec I would not have this skill but could do a similar thing with hamstring when I was tanking 5 mans.

The Enrage talent is for extra damage playing solo.  Won't do you any good as a tank as you have defense max'd and aren't getting crit as the tank anyway.   It will proc when you aren't in tanking gear though and there is a nice damage buff.  Deathwish is for solo play to help out there and the points in prot kind of helps mitigate a lot of the downsides of this ability.  

Arms:  Gotta take the 5 in Deflection.  3 in Tactical Mastery cuz stance dancing is the skill that sets the good warrior apart from the crowd. Finally, Improved Charge to help your solo efforts out.

 

Give it a shot, it will definitely give you more DPS playing solo, lots of rage for abilities solo and tanking, and just enough protection to get the job done well.

Edited by Veritch
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This is what i'm using; http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LVhxdhboxuVZEbzo

very fun! But def 2h orientated

i've had alot of fun with IF using this; http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LVGx0hboLZVZEbzoxzz or atleast some big dick weapon(weapon specs will vary, i wouldnt have had sword but mace spec ofc)(imp charge IS retarded but you need it plus pre-bloodrage to charge - pop sweeping AND habe enough rage for a lightning whirlwind before switching to defensive. Or atleast doing so in a timely manner)

fun builds but never rly optimal in any area..

as a bonus; the lolstun pvp ironfoe lolbuild! http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LcGxbhbaZVZxbts0hz

Edited by Marbo
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