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Dennis

My first year on Crestfall!

43 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hi everybody, exactly one year ago, the 18th of April 2016 I joined Crestfall. I was looking for a home after the Nostalrius shutdown and the Kronos II disappointment. The promises here were great, pre-nerf contents, superb scripts and an amazing PTE experience. I was so excited back then, the Beta was scheduled in the summer so I tought "well, just 2 months and then I can start to play again!" and the actual server should have started on december. However we all know that this didn't happen and let me say it, I'm discouraged.


At the moment I feel worried about this project, we're waiting forever just for a public Beta and I'm not sure that it will happen. Day after day I feel like Crestfall is going to be the next Corecraft. The Drama came in and they joined a cooperation with Elysium, and I'm not happy to say that exactly there, I lost all the faith I had in the Staff. Now we're still here, waiting and waiting, with nothing except words. I've been here from a year and still, we're just believing in promises.

Yeah, I know, this is a rant but try to understeand my feelings, we still don't know if they're really doing something or if they just writing some wall of texts every two weeks. Atleast one year ago Darkrasp did some live streams so we were able to verify that some shits were done but now we got nothing. Sincerely, I don't believe in Crestfall anymore, atleast not until I see the actual Server in action.

Happy birthday to me, huh?

With love

- A long time fan

Edited by Dennis
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I'm agree that waiting each 2 weeks for a wall of text is quite frustrating. Outstanding tried to do something with fishing in way to teasing us, but where is the website ? the timer ? livestreams ? I can understand that dramas did a breakdown to communication, but actually there is nothing. Moreover, i'm sure that a lot of beta testers would be interested by recording video on special features ... The total opacity is not a good way to maintain the community, no more seeing a goose saying "2030" at each question. 

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Afaik it's Crestfall, not Creastfall :c

The only thing we can do is wait.

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On 18/4/2017 at 2:15 AM, Retrac47 said:

I think something you have to keep in mind and that has been mentioned several times on the forums: the developers can't interact with the general populace like they did in the early days of the project. If you aren't able to believe people when they say they're working and believe that all the new beta testers are a ruse, then why would you even hang around? You might as well just go play on another server and ignore Crestfall altogether. Either it will launch or it won't. I get that you're disappointed; a lot of people are frustrated by the delays (myself included). This seems like it will be the best vanilla/PTE experience there has ever been, and I absolutely understand the desire to partake in that experience.

But we aren't owed anything. If the server never launches, yes it will be heartbreaking, but I will still have enjoyed my experience in this community reminiscing about the good old days of WoW and interacting with some wonderful people. I will do my best to hold no ill will towards Dark or Asura or anyone because I will not have actually lost anything. And if this does end up being a sham, I think the hype it has stirred up will at least push forward the next generation of WoW emulation.

I know that we aren't owed anything but their working style is embarrassing. You can't say A, and then say that you'll do B, but in the end you'll do G. That's not how a business works.

I'm here because I like to read the discussions on the forums, I lost all the hopes in a release now and that's sad, because, I was ready to donate monthly just for a great experience. I don't think that I'm the only person with these ideas in mind, I say what I think but other people would just leave instead of talking.

22 hours ago, Johnnyshaun said:

I'm agree that waiting each 2 weeks for a wall of text is quite frustrating. Outstanding tried to do something with fishing in way to teasing us, but where is the website ? the timer ? livestreams ? I can understand that dramas did a breakdown to communication, but actually there is nothing. Moreover, i'm sure that a lot of beta testers would be interested by recording video on special features ... The total opacity is not a good way to maintain the community, no more seeing a goose saying "2030" at each question. 

That's the point, we got nothing except words. I'm a patient kind of person but after a year I wish to see more. This silence seems like a huge scam for us.

16 hours ago, ilovecats said:

Afaik it's Crestfall, not Creastfall :c

The only thing we can do is wait.

Omg, I was over my head :P Fixed.

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18 minutes ago, Lilaina said:

 so maybe half a year from now I'll have grown a bitter and hateful old lady that spends her days ranting in reddit and shilling for other projects having lost all hope. :P

There are no ladies on the internet....

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Patience is a virtue, mate.

Most in here have been waiting for a proper server since Cataclysm.

Don't see the point of complaining now. At least you got professional updates and an interactive staff team plus the friendly community.

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U dont need to be like that.I mean, its 2017, theres so much other things to do.Let them work, and in time ull get server....or not.Tbh i was worried when they announced closed beta.Why? Coz of timing....it happened just few days after Nost return news. By that time, we all knew there wasnt going to be beta in august, september....and they just rushed with beta news just days after Nostelysium hype( key word "rush", i dont want that kind of server). 1 year passed? Ok, if it takes, let another year pass(i just hope u did not sit down in front of pc whole year waiting for cf server ;)).

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18 hours ago, ilovecats said:

Afaik it's Crestfall, not Creastfall :c

The only thing we can do is wait.

Wrong, we can also post memes.

http://imgur.com/9077sT4
 

2 hours ago, Dennis said:

That's not how a business works.

Well, CF's not a business. If you're into that kind of thing, Twinstar has been a business for the last 8 years or so and it seems they're doing ok.

1 hour ago, Lilaina said:

so maybe half a year from now I'll have grown a bitter and hateful old lady that spends her days ranting in reddit

Why wait?! It's been years since I became a hateful old lady... wait, that's not right.

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4 hours ago, mrmr said:

There are no ladies on the internet....

I'm sorry. D:

 

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2 hours ago, Lilaina said:

I'm sorry. D:

Me too  : /

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7 hours ago, Dennis said:

That's not how a business works.

 

7 hours ago, Dennis said:

This silence seems like a huge scam for us.

Business? Scam?

You got it all mixed up, man. This is the Crestfall forum.

The Twinstar forum is this way.

 

 Landfill.jpg

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well Asura already said that we will be getting the server this year no matter what so the last date possible would be Dec 31, i don't know about u but i can wait till then if i have to ;) 

i mean i would ofc prefer if it releases during my summer vacation but i know it's probably not likely :D

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This whole idea of pinning deep hopes on something, then despairing that it won't materialize -

There are so many better things to do with your time, mate. I'll be there when it starts to materialize, but until then, holy carp am I having fun elsewhere~

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Posted (edited)

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.

The fact Crestfall's Alpha testers have stuck around for such a long time speaks volumes to me.
I don't think the Alpha and now Beta testers would've stuck around for so long if they thought it was a lost cause, and that to me says that it isn't a sham.

Edited by Pvt_8Ball
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You echo many of my own frustrations and disappointments with the project.

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It's not about when, it's not about business or about scam, it's about giving more than a five minute text to the community 2 times a month(not saying that it take 5 minutes to write, obviously). Honestly, we are happy with a f***ing screenshot ! When it's a video we feel like christmas. O-k i admit, it would be nice to have a new fresh estimation, but it dont really matter, just look at these peoples who gave so much for this forum during this last year(like this nelf just above me). Just communicate more. Now i know, you feel that you communicated too much and it wasn't good for you, but it wasn't public relation, it was private communication on discord which is not the same thing. You have a community behind you, take care to it.

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Posted (edited)

We discussed about this on reddit before : there's absolutely nothing wrong with them taking longer than we first thought, as it's for a good reason. Plus, there are lots of things to do apart from waiting for crestfall guys, just go on with your everyday lives like you used to.

HOWEVER, there's one thing i fully agree with : even though they are in "silent development", it's really necessary that they provide people with some feedback concerning where the projects stands, and to show a little optimism. Right now, things are way too vague, too uncertain, and even the crestfallen are getting worried about this, which is quite normal.

Darkrasp and Asura obviously know about the community's concerns, and i have no doubt that they'll alleviate our doubts the next weeks, so let's calm down a little for now, and again, give them some time : putting them under even more pressure is probably not the best thing to do.

Edited by valaquenta
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I agree, without more information I have no reason to believe that CF won't end up as another Corecraft. But let's hope not.

 

People like to continually point out that CF isn't a business and that they don't owe us anything, which is all true but I think they seriously pre-built hype. When I first came to CF, it felt from the posts and discussions that release (at least a public beta) was only months away. What seemed like a potential Christmas 2016 present slipped to hopefully early 2017 and now it feels like a late 2017 release if we're lucky. I begin to wonder if the developers are perfectionists and underestimated the number of things needed to be done (seems like they are having to fix everything and build it all up from scratch).

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I am really curious as to what is/are the primary reason(s) for development taking as long as it is.  Obviously rebuilding a non-Mangos core is going to take time and the whole Elysium drama was a setback (that I hope reflects a one-time case of poor judgment rather than a broader and deeper issue).  Is it simply a lack of experienced developer manhours?  There's Asura, but Darkrasp is new to programming and I don't know much about the others in terms of how experienced they are and how much time they have available to contribute.  Is reworking Ascent proving to be far more difficult than expected?  Are beta testers not reporting enough or in proper fashion (doubtful)?

A fall/winter release is probably better for my life situation than distracting me now, but I can't help but wonder why things are taking longer than apparently even the devs expected.  I also find it interesting that so many private server projects have so few developers.  Corecraft, for example, was mostly just Shiro.  Is that because not enough people are both interested and capable or people jealously guarding their secrets?

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Thanks for the insight on what's going on @Elicas.

12 hours ago, Elicas said:

Most of the devs involved with coding the initial emulation releases moved on. First they moved on to TBC and WotLK, and then, as inter server drama, a toxic community and the amount of time spent in the emulation scene impacted on everyone, they slowly left. There are very, very few people who worked on the original code left in the scene, and I don't believe any of them are 'active' in the traditional sense. Probably less than 10 people total nowadays.

...

So we have the current situation. The devs from the old days are mostly gone or MIA for long periods. Most of the first, second and third waves of devs have packed their bags and left the scene after drama, burnout or simply losing interest with WoW (it's 11 years old now) and the devs that are left are the current crop. Even Asura with all his experience is a second or third wave WoW emulation dev.

But what does it matter if someone is a "first wave" dev that worked on the original code or a "third wave" dev? Isn't the game on the disk now the same as it was back then?

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1 hour ago, Lilaina said:

Thanks for the insight on what's going on @Elicas.

But what does it matter if someone is a "first wave" dev that worked on the original code or a "third wave" dev? Isn't the game on the disk now the same as it was back then?

Essentially, no.

The first wave of WoW emulation devs literally created the first emulation software for these servers. Vanilla servers were popping up while the content was still current, not running on 1.12.1. The second wave of devs either started working on TBC, or were taught what was going on by that first, initial wave of coders who created the emulation code bases we still use today. The very first reverse engineering began during the WoW alpha, with the first leak of the client coming before blizzard had even formally announced the game existed. Most of the people involved in the first wave of emulators were Everquest addon developers and early day crackers/hackers.

In the first year of WoW we had;

Stormcraft
Rift
Future WoW
Team Python
Khaos
Vibe
WoWDaemon

Each of those was an individual and separate 'core', worked on by coders who were literally re-engineering the game as Blizzard created it. Nearly none of those people are around on the scene any more. Now, compared to modern emulators, they were rudimentary at best. Stormcraft could handle about 200 people at max load, Python introduced many of the GM commands used in modern emulators, Rift had working chat including chat between continents, things like that. A lot of these emulators were abandoned before they had even the most cursory spell systems (Python had less than 10 working spells IIRC), no quest scripting, barely working combat with mainly auto attacks only. I distinctly remember Pyhton advertising as one of the first emulators to have working item vendors for example...

Nearly all of thse projects died to either Blizzard C&D (Vibe, Khaos and the emulation site GOTWOW?), internal staff disagreements or staff jumping to another project and stealing core material (Rift, Python, WoWDaemon) or just falling apart as teams realized they would need to do near yearly rewrites of the whole core to keep up with the new teams popping up (Python).

Around this time is when WoWEmu and Blizzhackers got into a rather public doxxing/leaking war (that puts the recent Elysium or Kronos/Nost drama to shame), with the two largest and "best" private servers actively hacking each other and leaking each others cores on a monthly basis, compromising each others databases, etc. This eventually led to both servers dying.

This is now a good time to quote someone from Ownedcore from 2009, lamenting the "death" of the scene.

Quote

Emulation will not be as big as it was today or yesterday in a short time. Day by day there are less developers, more teams and droping out, and World of warcraft keeps creating new patches. It is to blame on the communities fault. We dystroyed Ascent, we left NCDB behind, and we constantly flame Arcemu, Hearthstone or try to hack them. It's a dying community. If the Ascent based emulators drop out then Mangos will be the only one left and if we do the same things we do today it wont be around either, all out of greed and envy.

Sound familiar? He's talking about the same ascent base the CF team is using today, the same Mangos base used by devs today. The devs who actually made those cores? They left the scene close to 10 years ago.

Have a little read of this. It corroborates most of the info from above, though I'm not sure how reliable a post it is, it is a 8 year old post complaining about how many devs have dropped out of the emulation scene.

Now consider how many even from then are still around now.

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