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Hops

Why the PvE server?

73 posts in this topic
9 hours ago, VeloxBanks said:

PVE realms are for people who have no interest in WPVP. Get it? Someone who doesn't like WPVP. Someone who wants to avoid it. Someone who doesn't need or want WPVP in their game. Not being able to WPVP doesn't "take the thrill and excitement out of the world" for them. They don't want that "added layer of human interaction". They don't want a more competitive game. They want their game that little bit simpler and easier. That's what they're looking for. They lose nothing as they find exactly what they're looking for.

Of course I get it, I'm not thick. I understand that people are trying to avoid wPvP. When I said I didn't understand them, I guess what i meant was I didn't understand why they were an option. What is the point in even having factions if they mean nothing? To me, its like playing an FPS but only playing the campaign -- or you play multiplayer, but theirs no one on the other side. I mean you're playing the game, but there's a whole other piece that you're missing. 

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Sorry if I came off as a bit irritated. Perhaps it's because I am. The answer to your question is rather obvious. Common sense is all you need to get an answer.

No need to apologize. I asked. (:
 

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Should be kept in mind that I'll be rolling on the PVP realm myself. I'm 110% on that. And somehow I never found it hard to figure out why someone would want to roll on a PVE server. It really isn't rocket science. A basic understanding of what "preference" means is all you really need.

There is nothing to understand. PVE realms are a way to play the game, PVP realms are a different way to play the game. Neither one is inferior in any way. People who don't want WPVP know where to roll, as do the people who do want WPVP. Both groups are happy and everything is fine. There is also no need to go around telling people that the way they play (and enjoy) the game is wrong or inferior because "it takes the thrill and excitement out of the game" or "they enjoy getting ganked by 60s all the time". And no, you didn't say that. Not directly at least. But you did list all those things as cons which, whether intended or not, boils down to you saying "PVE realms are bad".

Its quite obvious that I believe PvE realms to be inferior, but they also have no impact on me (besides possibly fracturing an already small playerbase) so I'm not really trying to change anyone's mind here. I'm just curious. I'm not telling anyone that their server is worse per say! I just believe that turning OFF features is almost never a good thing especially if their only purpose is to make the game easier. Yeah, leveling might be easier on a PvE server but is it really worth gimping the rest of the time you're at 60, 70 and possibly beyond because you "didn't want to get ganked in STV"? That seems like a permanent solution to a very temporary problem. 

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WoW isn't quite Lord of the Flies Online, but a PvE server is much, much further from that than a PvP server

and some people don't like the idea of Lord of the Flies Online

edit: not only that, but PvE servers have less of those sorts of people who want to turn the game into Lord of the Flies Online than PvP servers do

Edited by Aquane
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@Hops You don't get it, it's not about making the game easier. It's a different playstyle, simple as that. As multiple people already said, time is a big factor for a good part of PvE players. For example, I'm planning to play with some friends of mine, but we will probably only be able to play like once a week for at most 3 hours at a time. Tell me, why should I want to waste time killing people or being killed by people if my time is that limited and my plan is to play the game, do the quests, soak in the lore and not look for other players to annoy by killing them over and over again with a group of 5? I also plan to level another character whenever I have time and my friends don't, and then, too, I wouldn't want to waste time killing or being killed or running or hiding from other players while I'm just trying to quest in peace, or farm mats for professions, or level fishing for one or two hours.

Just accept that people want different things from the game. Stop belittling people for their choices and move on. I mean, you got several detailed answers to your question already, and still you keep asking the same questions.

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39 minutes ago, Rawne said:

@Hops You don't get it, it's not about making the game easier. It's a different playstyle, simple as that. As multiple people already said, time is a big factor for a good part of PvE players. For example, I'm planning to play with some friends of mine, but we will probably only be able to play like once a week for at most 3 hours at a time. Tell me, why should I want to waste time killing people or being killed by people if my time is that limited and my plan is to play the game, do the quests, soak in the lore and not look for other players to annoy by killing them over and over again with a group of 5? I also plan to level another character whenever I have time and my friends don't, and then, too, I wouldn't want to waste time killing or being killed or running or hiding from other players while I'm just trying to quest in peace, or farm mats for professions, or level fishing for one or two hours.

But its not a "different playstyle". The core gameplay is altered. You are self imposing a handicap to make the game less challenging. You just can't say "its not about making the game easier" and then give a list of things that only serve to make the game easier. I haven't belittled anyone, simply stated the obvious. 

And to answer your question, because its immersive. Yes, getting camped sucks and it does eat at your time, but I guess I don't see the game as an A-Z playstyle. Its not just about "do x" then "do y". Its an ever changing experience with a multitude of possibilities:

> You get camped, you call your 60 friends and they save you.
> He calls his guildmates and now there is an all out war in STV for 20min.
> This leads for a raid to be formed. 
> More people join.
> You drive out the enemy faction.
> Everyone was having fun so they agree to raid the closest enemy city.
> All hell breaks loose for a couple hours and you get to kill a faction leader.
> You make in game friends and, hell possibly find some new guildmates. 

Sure, you may have only done a couple quests and you didn't get to "x" level, but you got to run around and have fun with your new/current friends. Maybe I'm a masochist, but enjoy that sort of thing. I don't see being killed as this super frustrating thing - it just happens sometimes. But I guess if that's unbearable to you, wPvP is an impossible sell. 
 

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Just accept that people want different things from the game. Stop belittling people for their choices and move on. I mean, you got several detailed answers to your question already, and still you keep asking the same questions.

I'm only looking for civil discourse with people who love the same game I do. I have not and will not insult anyone for their opinion. Different people have different views and I appreciate your input as much as anyone elses. However, if you don't like this thread, or the topic being discussed, you don't have to read it. You are free to move on. :/

Edited by Hops
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53 minutes ago, Hops said:

Yeah, leveling might be easier on a PvE server but is it really worth gimping the rest of the time you're at 60, 70 and possibly beyond because you "didn't want to get ganked in STV"? That seems like a permanent solution to a very temporary problem. 

I played both PvE and PvP servers on retail and pservers.  In my experience the ratio ranged from 75:25 at best to 90:10 at worst for ganking:"fun" wPvP.  Ganking being someone 5+ levels above you or groups vs. individuals and "fun" wPvP being Southshore/Tarren Mill scenarios or fighting someone who is within 5 levels.  WPvP at max level was quite limited.  The serious pvper's were grinding honor/rating in bg's/arenas.  WPvP was mostly ganksquads hunting lowbies or profession farmers and only rarely resulted in spontaneous wars like SS/TM.  If I can still do arenas and bg's on PvE servers why would I choose a ~8:2 ratio of boredom/frustration:fun in wPvP?  Not to mention that the population on PvP servers is generally more toxic.

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And yet, not everyone is going enjoy this scenario. Not everyone wants to get some big pvp faction war going on.

You get camped, you call your 60 friends and they save you.
> He calls his guildmates and now there is an all out war in STV for 20min.
> This leads for a raid to be formed. 
> More people join.
> You drive out the enemy faction.
> Everyone was having fun so they agree to raid the closest enemy city.
> All hell breaks loose for a couple hours and you get to kill a faction leader.
> You make in game friends and, hell possibly find some new guildmates.

 

There are people that do like the game as an A-Z playstyle.  They don't feel the need to waste their time doing the above mentioned.  Maybe to them doing quests is more fun than getting ganked.  Because to them it would be a waste of time. 

 

"The core gameplay is altered. You are self imposing a handicap to make the game less challenging" How so, because people are choosing not to be a part of what you enjoy?

"You just can't say "its not about making the game easier" and then give a list of things that only serve to make the game easier" But yet, it seems like you are doing just that.

 

 

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Why are so many of you triggered by OP? He never belittled anyone and was just curious what a PvE'ers mind set was. Then repeatedly replied in a respectful way lol. 

But i am curious too actually, you claim that it's a different play style, but what is this different play style on PvE? I always play PvP and I'm never that interested in WPvP and try to avoid it but it is a huge element of the game that makes you consider many different things; eg: different talent builds, when and where to quest, grouping and making friends for a variety of different reasons associated with PvP, etc. No ones wants to be ganked but leveling really is the shortest amount of time you spend in game. What about the majority of your time which is actually at 60? You don't have to be interested in PvP at all but OP makes a good point of it being such large aspect of the game, it keeps you on your toes, it can give you an adrenaline rush, it makes you think a little differently and be more aware, it affects economies and competition for resources and world bosses. The whole game of WoW is about an ongoing war between these two factions.

24 minutes ago, Hops said:

ts not just about "do x" then "do y". Its an ever changing experience with a multitude of possibilities:

this is such a good point. The main argument is always "time" and "ganking". This is such a poor argument. Ganking happens, sure, but it's not so prevalent it's unbearable every where you cant continue playing. And if it is you may need to reconsider how you engage and where you play. Again back to my point of adding in another aspect of considering different options and play styles when there's PvP. Is it not a an MMO? you're not racing to 60 anyways, so once in a while you have to deal with an aspect of PvP, is that really so bad? It's a live breathing world, its about the experiences i thought. Or is PvE really just about questing?

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I don't know how many different ways it has to be said so that you PVPers understand it. People who choose to play on PVE server, don't like wPVP. Can you imagine, people have different tastes. If someone doesn't want to get ganked even once during his 8 day grind to max level, how about you let him choose that. You don't see us making topics "Why PvP server? " "Like omg why would you choose to play undead rogue?" "Does it get you alot of pussy IRL when you spend your sorry life making it hard for other players to level?". Big scale world pvp where BOTH SIDES AGREE to be part of it can be done just aswell on PVE server, so that is just bullshit excuse for you thickglassed undead rogues to bash PVE servers.

Edited by Gerathus
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"Why is it a different playstyle?"

You should direct that question to Blizzard? (you just need a time-machine since you have to ask the Blizzard of 2003/4)

They are the ones that launched with PvE/PvP and RP rulesets.

In-fact https://games.soe.ucsc.edu/sites/default/files/wowspyder.pdf  this might open your eyes a bit, especially if you're from NA.

Edited by Roadblock
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PvE servers are definitely not for me. But I understand why some people prefer it. If you don't enjoy PvP, I can see how PvE server is the clear choice.

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12 minutes ago, Gerathus said:

I don't know how many different ways it has to be said so that you PVPers understand it. People who choose to play on PVE server, don't like wPVP. Can you imagine, people have different tastes. If someone doesn't want to get ganked even once during his 8 day grind to max level, how about you let him choose that. You don't see us making topics "Why PvP server? " "Like omg why would you choose to play undead rogue?" "Does it get you alot of pussy IRL when you spend your sorry life making it hard for other players to level?". Big scale world pvp where BOTH SIDES AGREE to be part of it can be done just aswell on PVE server, so that is just bullshit excuse for you thickglassed undead rogues to bash PVE servers.

1. I don't really understand to be honest because the only argument made so far is "it sucks to level".
-- Ganking is such a small aspect of the game considering the majority of your time will be spent at 60.
-- What about the Gates of AQ PvP?
-- What about PvPing to get access to world bosses?
-- What about the epic fights outside of BWL? 
2. Make one, and I will give arguments for why I prefer PvP servers (:
3. I am a Resto Druid main with a War alt. I don't particularly like Rogues myself.
4. Big scale world PvP can't happen when people can just go afk for 10m and be unflagged. So I think its a pretty good argument. 
 

Edited by Hops
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I wanted to be a "combat healer" once. Is a dwarf paladin a good choice for this role?

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20 minutes ago, Hops said:

1. I don't really understand to be honest because the only argument made so far is "it sucks to level".
-- Ganking is such a small aspect of the game considering the majority of your time will be spent at 60.
-- What about the Gates of AQ PvP?
-- What about PvPing to get access to world bosses?
-- What about the epic fights outside of BWL? 

Well all of that is 100% your opinion. Don't try to force it on other people. Personally couldn't give a flying fuck about AQ pvp, probably never going to see world boss if they don't have fixed respawn, so don't give a fuck about that either and lastly nothing epic in BWL pvp in my opinion. What is it that pisses you off so much that you can't see the fact that people just don't CARE ABOUT WORLD PVP. And no before you start typing, it is not HUGE PART OF THE GAME HURDUR if you choose to play that way. 

 


 

 

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3 hours ago, Hops said:

But that's the core of PvE/raiding too. Isn't it? Tab target, mash buttons, move, and repeat as necessary.

Yes Hops, but the difference is that you're not fighting things where your weakest skill takes off 25% of the target's max HP.  PVP is horribly broken number balance wise in Vanilla.  Player output scales way too well; health cannot keep up.

 

Also, Hops, just as an FYI:   you don't like the PVE server because it fractures the player base, but there are a lot of players who are going to roll PVE, and wouldn't bother playing at all if they only had the PVP option, so the fracturing argument isn't that strong.

Edited by Lloyd2k4
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8 minutes ago, Gerathus said:

Well all of that is 100% your opinion.
Don't try to force it on other people.
Personally couldn't give a flying fuck about AQ pvp,
probably never going to see world boss if they don't have fixed respawn, so don't give a fuck about that either and lastly
nothing epic in BWL pvp in my opinion.
What is it that pisses you off so much that you can't see the fact that people just don't CARE ABOUT WORLD PVP.
And no before you start typing, it is not HUGE PART OF THE GAME HURDUR if you choose to play that way. 

1. Correct
2. I wouldn't dream of it!
3. You're definitely missing out! (:
3. That's unfortunate, but ok.
4. Well, all of that is 100% your opinion.
5. Absolutely nothing. I just think is silly. Sounds to me like, "I love Mario Kart but the shells make me mad". 
6. Too late. Haha.

Edited by Hops
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5 minutes ago, Lloyd2k4 said:

Yes Hops, but the difference is that you're not fighting things where your weakest skill takes off 25% of the target's max HP.  PVP is horribly broken number balance wise in Vanilla.  Player output scales way too well; health cannot keep up.

Also, Hops, just as an FYI:   you don't like the PVE server because it fractures the player base, but there are a lot of players who are going to roll PVE, and wouldn't bother playing at all if they only had the PVP option, so the fracturing argument isn't that strong.

That's true, it gets a little messier as people get geared. Its not the best, but its the same in BGs/duels so its a fundamental flaw in the game.

True. But even if 50% of people intending on rolling on a PvE server, chose to go to the PvP server because they had to, we'd have more players. (: Hopefully that won't be necessary though.

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Just now, Hops said:

That's true, it gets a little messier as people get geared. Its not the best, but its the same in BGs/duels so its a fundamental flaw in the game.

True. But even if 50% of people intending on rolling on a PvE server, chose to go to the PvP server because they had to, we'd have more players. (: Hopefully that won't be necessary though.

I don't think the playerbase will be that weak, to be honest.  A lot of players on Elysium are fed up with the staff bullshit over there and are looking forward to Crestfall now.

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12 minutes ago, Lloyd2k4 said:

Yes Hops, but the difference is that you're not fighting things where your weakest skill takes off 25% of the target's max HP.  PVP is horribly broken number balance wise in Vanilla.  Player output scales way too well; health cannot keep up.

I would say the balance is way better in vanilla that it is in any expansion, quick reaction and proper execution is rewarded, and mistakes are punished. As opposed to the mindless turtling of expansions with a myriad of oh shit buttons and counters to counters to counters which removed class identity.

Edited by Terpsichore
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I gank all kinds. The more mad they get, the better. If there was a way to infiltrate the PvE server and gank people, I'd probably do it and get banned. I understand your woes. However, the most enjoyable pass time in wow, besides taking all your money in the AH, is shitting on those who do the exact same thing as me. They rage the hardest. Locking out a level 60 in stuns while a 2-3 level 40s beat him to death... That's why I love vanilla. Even a moderately geared level 60 can still get his o-ring distended to the point of non-function by a couple of skilled 40s. I wouldn't miss out on the WPVP while leveling for the world, even if I only had 3 hours a week to play, because that's what I love.. just as you all love feeling the masculine strength of your boyfriend's hands, as he grabs your ass in Ashenvale while you fish together. That wink afterwards, am I right? 😉 💕

My point is, I avoid the PvE server for the exact same reason you guys avoid the pvp server; it doesn't allow me to play like I want. It's all about what the game is to you. Personally, I would rather none of you have a choice but to play pvp, just so I can pillage your infantile temperaments until you rage-log, but I do understand.

 

Not really that difficult to comprehend. If something you enjoy more is offered as an option, why wouldn't you choose it? I think your question as to "why PvE" is one that would be better geared towards the developers that created it, not those who choose to play on it. 

Edited by Bluemoon
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45 minutes ago, Bluemoon said:

My point is, I avoid the PvE server for the exact same reason you guys avoid the pvp server; it doesn't allow me to play like I want. It's all about what the game is to you. Personally, I would rather none of you have a choice but to play pvp, just so I can pillage your infantile temperaments until you rage-log, but I do understand.

Not really that difficult to comprehend. If something you enjoy more is offered as an option, why wouldn't you choose it? I think your question as to "why PvE" is one that would be better geared towards the developers that created it, not those who choose to play on it. 

Well, I can't say that I enjoy wPvP to the extent you do, but I guess I can understand how people like you would make people actively avoid a PvP server. And yes, I wish I could ask Blizz devs what they were thinking. But thats not quite feasible, is it? The next best option to satiate my curiosity was to ask the players who actively choose to avoid an available PvP server. I would never want to force them to them to play under my terms. I just simply underestimated how many people abhor the idea of combat that's not scripted and controlled in the confines of a battleground. In the end, its good that we have a choice as long is it doesn't harm the sustainability of the project as a whole.

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I don't think I got into pvp till late bc / early wraith.  And a lot of the stuff I seen annoyed me more than I want to recall. So for me the griefing and ganking was a big turn off. And this kind of nonsense happened A LOT!! So it did make pvp a toxic environment. There were countless times when the alliance would attack one of our major city's Org seemed to be the popular choice. And I would say about 40% of the time people actually cared to do something. I am sure we did the same to SW. So I know it goes both ways. It did get annoying when the alliance would come through and kill all the quest gives in Durotar  starting area. Or the Barrens and at Camp T. When they would just come through an area, no other reason than to just cause grief. Not needing anything, not looting anything. Another example being when they would sneak in and kill the auction house npc's was also annoying. So those are just some of the examples.

Now with that said not all of my pvp experiences were bad. I love being the antagonist in bg's when I am in the mood for some pvp. I can't even remember how many people I have messed with just for the fun of it. And as cheesy as it may sound I do enjoy being able to stand my ground and hold my own against 1-2 players. I found a certain sense of satisfaction and pride when I could hold a base till more help arrived. I even remember what the mindset seemed to be for the horde. We were like a band of barbarians, no rhyme or reason, just pure chaos. It was kind of rewarding in it's own way. Not having anyone to rely on but your self, made you that much better of a player. Where as the alliance was the exact opposite, they had the group mentality. So I think more often than not the ally side won just because of the team work ethic. But on those occasions when we did work together as a team we would just be like a wrecking ball coming through, destroying anyone who got in our way.

 

So with that said, pvp has it's up's and down's. And if you are wanting to devote your time to doing that, great. I know I enjoyed it. I even got pretty good with a lot of the bg's. If you don't want to do that you shouldn't have to. Blizzard gave people three different types of servers to choose from for a reason.  I don't feel there is one right/wrong way to play this game. As long as you are having fun, that should be all that matters. So if having fun to you all about pvp great. If your idea if having fun is questing, lore, hunting for rare recipes, achievements etc... So be it, as long as we are all having fun enjoying the game, that should be the only thing that really matters right?

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25 minutes ago, Codemonster said:

When they would just come through an area, no other reason than to just cause grief. Not needing anything, not looting anything.

 

Games are about having fun, not "needing" anything, and what you mentioned is pretty much what should be happening in a faction-based PvP MMO all day along, that's the whole point.

This modern mentality that you must get some sort of tangible reward for playing the game is why modern MMOs suck so much, they're just glorified farming simulators where fun doesn't exist, just mindless farming, and this includes PvP. The only reward PvP needs is fun.

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5 hours ago, Nocturn said:

Why are so many of you triggered by OP? He never belittled anyone and was just curious what a PvE'ers mind set was. Then repeatedly replied in a respectful way lol. 

But i am curious too actually, you claim that it's a different play style, but what is this different play style on PvE? I always play PvP and I'm never that interested in WPvP and try to avoid it but it is a huge element of the game that makes you consider many different things; eg: different talent builds, when and where to quest, grouping and making friends for a variety of different reasons associated with PvP, etc. No ones wants to be ganked but leveling really is the shortest amount of time you spend in game. What about the majority of your time which is actually at 60? You don't have to be interested in PvP at all but OP makes a good point of it being such large aspect of the game, it keeps you on your toes, it can give you an adrenaline rush, it makes you think a little differently and be more aware, it affects economies and competition for resources and world bosses. The whole game of WoW is about an ongoing war between these two factions.

this is such a good point. The main argument is always "time" and "ganking". This is such a poor argument. Ganking happens, sure, but it's not so prevalent it's unbearable every where you cant continue playing. And if it is you may need to reconsider how you engage and where you play. Again back to my point of adding in another aspect of considering different options and play styles when there's PvP. Is it not a an MMO? you're not racing to 60 anyways, so once in a while you have to deal with an aspect of PvP, is that really so bad? It's a live breathing world, its about the experiences i thought. Or is PvE really just about questing?

I never really found wPvP to be that big of an element on PvP servers.  I never made any interesting decisions (talents, questing, etc.) based on it.  And the commonly proposed scenario of: 1)Get ganked 2)Call in friends 3)Enemy calls friends 4)Spontaneous zone war happened pretty rarely in real life.  Non-guildmates in the zone generally ignored calls for help and guildmates in other zones mostly wanted to do their own shit.  Maybe one or two might come some of the time.

And as I said in my previous post, wPvP at max level was also pretty limited.  Sure you had world bosses or BRM, but max level pvp'ers mostly stuck to bg's or arenas trying to get gear.

Perhaps a good analogy would be that wPvP is like a fly in your soup.  Some people consider it disgusting.  Some people consider it extra protein.

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