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Aquane

Some questions about the server

79 posts in this topic

To add to Darkrasps' comment, I do recall that Character Customization overhaul did not come to play until Wrath of the Lich King, making it quite hard to provide race changes. Therefore we would require to use extremely non-blizzlike methods to provide this particular service.

But as Blizzard did introduce Character Re-Customization, I wouldn't rule the possibility out once progression reaches to Wrath of the Lich King.

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17 minutes ago, rooted said:

To add to Darkrasps' comment, I do recall that Character Customization overhaul did not come to play until Wrath of the Lich King, making it quite hard to provide race changes. Therefore we would require to use extremely non-blizzlike methods to provide this particular service.

But as Blizzard did introduce Character Re-Customization, I wouldn't rule the possibility out once progression reaches to Wrath of the Lich King.

Oooookay.

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Just now, myrnym said:

Oooookay.

Just don't take my word for granted, I'm just a lowly forum moderator. ;]

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18 minutes ago, rooted said:

Just don't take my word for granted, I'm just a lowly forum moderator. ;]

It's not something I'd complain about either way, it just changes the decision-making process for me in the long haul about character paths. But I will wait for a final decision, if one comes down before Vanilla launch~

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i do not like the idea of race changes, even if faction changes won't be included

Edited by Aquane
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Also relevant for my interests, since it means I'll have the mage going in Vanilla before making it a Belf when TBC releases. Quite happy to pay for it.

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I think I can state pretty categorically that faction changes aren't going to happen.  Race changes are a maybe, though as Elicas intimated, it would most likely be as a donation reward service, since we would have to manually recreate the character - no in-game functionality for this was created in Vanilla.  Asura is actually away on vacation this weekend, so we aren't having any staff discussions, we're just each plugging away on our own tasks right now.  Provided I remember, I'll bring this up early next week and we can discuss it internally. 

I suspect there would be a bunch of factors involved, mostly in gauging the demand for the service versus how much time we'll have to spend manually recreating characters, and the resultant effects of both the changes themselves, (and our time spent on doing that instead of other tasks), on the server, economically and functionally.  That said, something is going to have to generate some revenue here or we won't be able to keep the server online, especially if it gets big.  I wish I or another team member was a wealthy individual and could just fund it with pocket change, but unfortunately that just isn't the case for the Crestfall team.  We're all either working stiffs or students.  In terms of donation rewards, this seems like a relatively benign option.  We could also consider the option of allowing them only for say a 30 day period prior to/following the TBC progression, WotLK progression, etc., or capping race changes to once per account, or any other of limitations should it prove to be problematic somehow.

I'm mostly just spitballing there.  Suffice to say we'll talk about it and let you know.

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2 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

I'm mostly just spitballing there.  Suffice to say we'll talk about it and let you know.

Thanks! I can appreciate both sides of the decision about it, and I wouldn't mind at all paying for it myself.

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@Darkrasp Thanks for the feedback mate.

I would suggest tabling name changes along with faction changes. I really disliked that on Kronos well known scammers would use Twinstars online trading store to 'trade' characters between their own accounts. On Kronos when you trade a char you get a free name change.

I support the TBC/WotLK time period for changes though. 

In regards to generating revenue (especially at the start) perhaps allow people to reserve say, 3 names max per account for £X per name. Will allow your most dedicated supporters a chance to grab the names they love while giving you a jump in cash at release.

On that topic, I'd suggest your head GM reserves a few names like Dodgeykebaab and anyone else you'd like to review the server at launch.

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Sorry, Dodgeykebaab has already been reserved thanks. Cheap at €50.

OK we discussed this before in how to reward testers, contributors and other worthies for their input to get the server going. While it is down to the developers my personal opinion is that time contributed = perks. So for people like me who don't have the time to commit what you need bar the odd forum or testing contribution, a monetary contribution seems sensible. 

Though I think OAP's like myself deserve a discount :D

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I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but name and race changes are tremendously problematic in a vanilla environment. People avoid accountability for being toxic and ninja looting by just disappearing.

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7 hours ago, Elicas said:

@Elicas

On that topic, I'd suggest your head GM reserves a few names like Dodgeykebaab and anyone else you'd like to review the server at launch.

Remind me when we release :D

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8 hours ago, Dawnstorm said:

I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but name and race changes are tremendously problematic in a vanilla environment. People avoid accountability for being toxic and ninja looting by just disappearing.

Agree with this, I don't like name or race changes, but I guess I can live with the latter. As long as it's not a faction change.

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how exactly does reckoning work?

is reckbombing gonna be possible on this server to the extent that paladins can oneshot elite mobs, or even outdoor raid elites or worse? and if so will it be fixed so it only stacks up to 1 or 2 stacks at the max?

Edited by Aquane
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I believe Reckoning got capped at 4 or 5 extra attacks in Vanilla.  I'd have to research it, but that's likely the way we're going to go.  It won't be an uncapped thing where you can save up 30k attacks and oneshot Kazzak.

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17 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

I believe Reckoning got capped at 4 or 5 extra attacks in Vanilla.  I'd have to research it, but that's likely the way we're going to go.  It won't be an uncapped thing where you can save up 30k attacks and oneshot Kazzak.

It was hotfixed to 5 after the Kazzack one shot video came out.

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20 hours ago, Elicas said:

It was hotfixed to 5 after the Kazzack one shot video came out.

and then lowered to 4 in later patch.

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1 hour ago, Daribon said:

and then lowered to 4 in later patch.

So it was, but I wasn't sure which patch it was that changes it. I know the hotfix was 5 though, most 1.12.1 clients run with the adjusted rate of 4.

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Hello there. Just my second post here. I am currently playing at Kronos2 (and live). I have some questions as well!

1. Will you allow moving from PvE to PvP server and vise versa? 

2. As a warlock for ever (since vanilla, in live now, in Nost, in Kronos2 now etc) I see per aggro work different across servers. For instance Nost needed improved voidwalker soon, while Kronos did not need it at all. I know I am asking something vague but can you estimate where will you be in this matter? Pet agro that is.

3. I am sure you keep an eye on existing servers (like Kronos). Do you feel confident you will be better at lag issues Kronos suffers the last 2 months or so?

Thanks for your time!

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1 hour ago, kikeron said:

Hello there. Just my second post here. I am currently playing at Kronos2 (and live). I have some questions as well!

1. Will you allow moving from PvE to PvP server and vise versa? 

2. As a warlock for ever (since vanilla, in live now, in Nost, in Kronos2 now etc) I see per aggro work different across servers. For instance Nost needed improved voidwalker soon, while Kronos did not need it at all. I know I am asking something vague but can you estimate where will you be in this matter? Pet agro that is.

3. I am sure you keep an eye on existing servers (like Kronos). Do you feel confident you will be better at lag issues Kronos suffers the last 2 months or so?

Thanks for your time!

 

1. No decision made regarding this yet, there are a lot of variables that can affect this decision so we will look into it later on if there is any need for it.

2. We feel that other servers don't have all the values correct, therefore we have done extensive research regarding all the values (threat, hp, mana, damage etc) in order to get things right.

3. We don't consider the vanilla servers competition really, because we have our own concept which is unique for now. I don't know much about Kronos lag issues, but I heard they had some DDoS problems and provider changes which might cause an awful lot of problems to any server out there. However, our core / emulator is quite different from the widely used Mangos and therefore I can assure you that ours is more efficient at handling a wide area of functions and mechanics. In the end most of the lag problems are caused by DDoS or a badly optimized emulator, and we believe to have both of them covered by the time of release.

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2 hours ago, jonu said:

3. We don't consider the vanilla servers competition really, because we have our own concept which is unique for now. I don't know much about Kronos lag issues, but I heard they had some DDoS problems and provider changes which might cause an awful lot of problems to any server out there. However, our core / emulator is quite different from the widely used Mangos and therefore I can assure you that ours is more efficient at handling a wide area of functions and mechanics. In the end most of the lag problems are caused by DDoS or a badly optimized emulator, and we believe to have both of them covered by the time of release.

On this last point, given how you guys seem to be setting up your realm, will you be doing any additional work to make the AQ event run relatively smoothly?  I've never actually seen a gate open, but I've heard the stories of lag and crashes and all kinds of drama because all the traffic on the server was in one small place.  A smooth bang of the gong would be a massive achievement indeed.

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Regarding this quote I have two separate questions for your team:

On 4/18/2016 at 2:36 AM, Darkrasp said:

6. With regard to population, the answer is "we'll see".  We'll worry about getting to 2500 peak first.  If congestion or overcrowding is a problem, then we will open another server.

 

  • In the hypothetical scenario that the server becomes vastly popular and attracts a large follower base, what are the chances that you will be working on increasing the server cap instead of pushing out more servers?
  • If you are utterly certain that this is not the route you are intending to take, could you explain your reasoning on why you envisage lower capped servers?

 

The fact that the Vanilla expansion has so many more zones with relevant content in comparison to future expansions just makes it the most suitable one to house greater numbers of players. I.e. on any current TBC servers you start out at 60 and everyone has to contest in Hellfire Peninsula and Zangarmarsh to level, and for the remaining duration of your server experience you mainly stay within the 7 Outland zones and only go to the Vanilla zones to use the Auction house. In vanilla instead, every race has their own starting zone (R.I.P. Gnomes and Trolls) and there are a plethora of zones at hand to fill the content from 1 - 60 spread over two entire continents, of which each have double the amount of zones within them then future expansions. Effectively giving you four times as many zones as later expansions to fill up with players.

 

Furthermore a larger server is able to offer a greater range of players and guilds, making competition for server firsts and world bosses so much more appealing. Of course I also see the the other side of this specific argument as it would simultaneously affect the individual ability to farm mobs in particularly congested areas.

 

Last but not least a greater server population gives you a much larger network of communities, as I just reminisce about the days on Nost where we would ride out in the hundreds from the capital cities on raid days to gather your world buffs, only to meet up in the melting pot of world PvP that is Blackrock Mountain. Upwards of a thousand of players would be passing through this zone on wednesday evenings, attempting to slip through the carnage with their guilds to savour their buffs for their raids whilst others only come with the intention of wiping the competition, making it feel like the actual "World of Warcraft".

 

Either way I am very keen on hearing your opinion about this matter.

-  Kryss

 

Edited by Kryss
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Several reasons.

1)  It isn't blizz-like to have 10k populations.

2) The game was designed around server populations no higher than ~3000.  You may be thinking, "Well, that's because the hardware tech was fifteen years old and that's all they could do, but you could do much more than that now!" which is correct, but because that was a limitation at the time the game was designed, that is the way the game was designed.  It's all balanced for those populations in terms of respawn timers, resource allocation, item droprates, gold sinks, world events.. You triple the population without changing any of those things and you start running into major issues with resources.  How about trying to get one piece of Devilsaur Leather on Nost?  Do you reminisce about how wonderful an experience that was?  Probably not.  A healthy server with a normal population feels fine and plays nicer than an overpopulated one.  Changing all the aforementioned parameters to reflect a higher populations also is beyond the scope of this project; we don't have any interest in doing it, and for a team of a few volunteers, would take so long as to push release back by weeks or months.

3)  This is a progressive server that will upgrade through expansions.  As you mentioned, Vanilla may be more suited to having larger populations than TBC, so where would that leave us when we expand to TBC?  Trying to jam 10k people into Outland would be a disaster, as having that tighter space is just going to magnify all the problems a mega high population causes.  We're stuck in the unenviable position at that time of splitting population between realms, or else put up a big "Told you." sticker and leave the players to suffer.

4)  As I've said before, we aren't Nostalrius.  Nostalrius is gone.  We're doing things our way, not their way.

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6 minutes ago, Darkrasp said:

Several reasons.

1)  It isn't blizz-like to have 10k populations.

2) The game was designed around server populations no higher than ~3000.  You may be thinking, "Well, that's because the hardware tech was fifteen years old and that's all they could do, but you could do much more than that now!" which is correct, but because that was a limitation at the time the game was designed, that is the way the game was designed.  It's all balanced for those populations in terms of respawn timers, resource allocation, item droprates, gold sinks, world events.. You triple the population without changing any of those things and you start running into major issues with resources.  How about trying to get one piece of Devilsaur Leather on Nost?  Do you reminisce about how wonderful an experience that was?  Probably not.  A healthy server with a normal population feels fine and plays nicer than an overpopulated one.  Changing all the aforementioned parameters to reflect a higher populations also is beyond the scope of this project; we don't have any interest in doing it, and for a team of a few volunteers, would take so long as to push release back by weeks or months.

3)  This is a progressive server that will cycle through expansions.  As you mentioned, Vanilla may be more suited to having larger populations than TBC, so where would that leave us when we expand to TBC?  Trying to jam 10k people into Outland would be a disaster, as having that tighter space is just going to magnify all the problems a mega high population causes.  We're stuck in the unenviable position at that time of splitting population between realms, or else put up a big "Told you." sticker and leave the players to suffer.

4)  As I've said before, we aren't Nostalrius.  Nostalrius is gone.  We're doing things our way, not their way.

Completely agree.
Nostalrius PvE realm had about 4~5K players at peak wich was a good number for mantaining the realm alive, but sometimes it felt excessive, specially on starting zones so I think that server population should be somewhere around 3~4K players at maximum.

I'm sorry for bringing nostalrius up again, but it was to support your thesis ^_^

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1 hour ago, Toche said:

Completely agree.
Nostalrius PvE realm had about 4~5K players at peak wich was a good number for mantaining the realm alive, but sometimes it felt excessive, specially on starting zones so I think that server population should be somewhere around 3~4K players at maximum.

I'm sorry for bringing nostalrius up again, but it was to support your thesis ^_^

I always enjoi on high populated servers.. 4k server will be fine (3k) is lower bcs some time at non peak time have so small ppl in server that we can't make some group quests like elites.. 

Edited by loonbg
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