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Aquane

Faction Imbalance

42 posts in this topic

Okay so as many of you probably already know, theres likely gonna be faction imbalance on Crestfall's servers

lots of alliance and not as many horde on the PvE server

lots of horde and not as many alliance on the PvP servers, though there it'd be less extreme than the PvE server, but also more significant because its a PvP server

aside from giving free one-way transfers, how could one fix faction imbalance issues?

 

personally, i think that having the players be required to state which server they want to play on ahead of time(one choice only, can be changed) could solve much of this issue

so there'd be a webpage a month before release with the faction balances for each server, and hopefully the players would judge which server they'd play on based on that webpage, and change them accordingly so theres no imbalances, or so one server has all the imbalances(hopefully not the PvE server), or even better, maybe the excess horde players who wanted to play on the PvP servers could play on the PvE server instead, though there'd still be some imbalance then since there'd be more PvP than PvE servers

afterwards you could keep a webpage up with the constant faction balance for each server, excluding level 1-5 players, and only considering players who've been online within the past 2 weeks

 

I also think releasing all the servers at once might cause faction imbalance, maybe you should spread each one out by at least a week and release the PvE server last so people who really wanna play NOW dont just go to the PvE server because the PvP server is full

 

 

do you guys have any other ideas for preventing faction imbalance?

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Not really. Vanilla was always one sided and TBC flipped it. Just play what side you want, make friends and enjoy yourself. The imbalance's most obvious issue is world PvP, which anyone on a PvE server doesn't give a shit about anyway, which is the biggest help since the majority of PvE servers released are like 55/45 for each faction, since 10 v 1 gank fests don't happen. (Which is the solution anyway to me, no world PvP = closer balance side effect.)

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I haven't seen, read about, or thought up of a great solution to this and I doubt there is one that doesn't involve changing the game. Blizzard inherently made the game imbalanced.

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Elysium PvP is having issues with this.. Faction imbalance in high level zones is very considerable. In Un'goro, Winterspring, Felwood, Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge there are AT LEAST 3 horde for each alliance. Ganking is very brutal indeed and leveling as ally past 50 is a very, very bad experience.

 

It all started with the normal >50% horde population and its more inclination to PvP. Since more horde were queueing for BGs, they have to wait longer. What to do while waiting (given you are a ranker)? Go out in the world to farm honor. This means that well geared 60 horde started to roam the 50+ leveling zones. Ally did not, as their queue was super fast...

 

Slowly this started to escalate as more horde were joining BG queues and roaming. This forced slowly ally to simply stop going into these zones, which in turn made the faction imbalance in them worse and worse.

 

Status quo: There is usually 5 horde to one alliance in 50+ zones. Ally are either leveling in dungeons (there is a big gap between ~52 ST and 56+ BRD, most people will only take 58+ to BRD and LBRS, so leveling in dungeons past 52 is complicated), leveling in isolated zones without quests (no horde), like some parts of Silithus or simply giving up. In turn, this slower influx of 60 ally make the BG situation worse and the cycle can't be broken anymore.

 

Having both horde and ally toons there, the difference in leveling experience is huge and it's unsure to where this situation is headed.

 

The only blizzlike solution to this is, of course, don't allow such a high population to connect to the same game world, which was designed for 2k players. I would very much prefer smaller realms, of 2~3k and cross-server BGs than this stupid mess that Elysium is. (Cross server BGs were ruled out if I remember correctly, due to the complexity to code such a feature. A shame. I guess CF could really leave a mark if it had working X-server BG, even if that alone took a few more months to get it right)

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Alliance is simply superior when it comes to organized PvP and raiding in vanilla, while also naturally being the slightly more popular faction.

The only solution to this would be taking a look at shaman vs paladin balance and some racials.

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6 hours ago, Terpsichore said:

Alliance is simply superior when it comes to organized PvP and raiding in vanilla, while also naturally being the slightly more popular faction.

Have you played on any servers recently? Horde is more popular.

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Posted (edited)

In vanilla Alliance are way better for both pvp and pve so its wierd that they are not as popular in pvp servers. That changes in TBC the other way around. The problem is that i wan't a shaman and would have easy gone alliance if it whas not for the fact that imo Shamans are only playable on Alliance side when dwarf can be them. So i will prob go Horde even if i am afraid it will be a 60/40 Horde favor. I rather be the outnumberd much more fun imo.

 

I don't think it much they can do to stop it. Promote joining one side the only thing i could see.

Edited by Sherekhan
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28 minutes ago, loeth said:

Have you played on any servers recently? Horde is more popular.

Maybe he is referring to retail Vanilla, I'm not really sure. On PVP realms, if given the option, people used to congregate on servers where the balance was tilted massively in the favor of one faction or the other. On private servers that's not as possible since there's not that many servers to choose from to begin with.

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I used be trapped in statistics, wanted to be "unique" by playing the rarest race/class combo. Obviously, it wasn't fun at all because I didn't like it. It's best to leave players to their choice, but I do understand that faction imbalance will make PvP servers a sad place. But what can we do? I'm rolling a dwarf and nothing will change it!

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1 hour ago, ilovecats said:

I used be trapped in statistics, wanted to be "unique" by playing the rarest race/class combo. 

 

I have made this mistake before. Looking to see what is least played and rolling that. I won't do it again. 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, ilovecats said:

I used be trapped in statistics, wanted to be "unique" by playing the rarest race/class combo. Obviously, it wasn't fun at all because I didn't like it. It's best to leave players to their choice, but I do understand that faction imbalance will make PvP servers a sad place. But what can we do? I'm rolling a dwarf and nothing will change it!

If dwarfs were able to be shamans <3

Single best thing in cata. Change direct to alliance.

Edited by Sherekhan
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30 minutes ago, Sherekhan said:

If dwarfs were able to be shamans <3

Single best thing in cata. Change direct to alliance.

Shamans are not quite my thing, but I could try a dwarf one. Too bad I can't stand the new "lore".

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Horde may be majority but all the good players are at the alliance faction, alliance premades stomp horde shitmades in general and most people that play undead rogues are shitters anyways

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34 minutes ago, Nostrils said:

Horde may be majority but all the good players are at the alliance faction, alliance premades stomp horde shitmades in general and most people that play undead rogues are shitters anyways

Let us know how you really feel...

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, ilovecats said:

I used be trapped in statistics, wanted to be "unique" by playing the rarest race/class combo. Obviously, it wasn't fun at all because I didn't like it. It's best to leave players to their choice, but I do understand that faction imbalance will make PvP servers a sad place. But what can we do? I'm rolling a dwarf and nothing will change it!

Me too. :P When I was trying to figure out what to roll on nost and kronos, I didn't even consider warrior/rogue/mage because I wanted to be a special snowflake too and those three classes were so popular...

This time I won't care because I intend to play the same main from vanilla to WotLK and no FOTM class rules forever.

Edited by Lilaina
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1 hour ago, Lilaina said:

Me too. :P When I was trying to figure out what to roll on nost and kronos, I didn't even consider warrior/rogue/mage because I wanted to be a special snowflake too and those three classes were so popular...

This time I won't care because I intend to play the same main from vanilla to WotLK and no FOTM class rules forever.

Not choosing an over played class isn't really a bad idea though. If you play as a Warlock, Druid, or Priest on a Vanilla server, you'll get guild invites and gear thrown at you.
 

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Posted (edited)

Three unevolved beasts against one dwof is quite unfair and dishonorable. Five would make it more acceptable. 

Edited by Roland
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4 hours ago, Hops said:

Not choosing an over played class isn't really a bad idea though. If you play as a Warlock, Druid, or Priest on a Vanilla server, you'll get guild invites and gear thrown at you.
 

Prot Warrior also

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1 hour ago, Ester said:

Prot Warrior also

I thought that was for 5 mans only? Because you don't need many tanks for raids.

 

5 hours ago, Hops said:

Not choosing an over played class isn't really a bad idea though. If you play as a Warlock, Druid, or Priest on a Vanilla server, you'll get guild invites and gear thrown at you.
 

Those classes aren't as good at PvP based on what I've read though, and I'm not thinking of just vanilla but TBC and WotLK as well since this is a PTE project.

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On 6/16/2017 at 2:22 AM, loeth said:

Cross server BGs were ruled out if I remember correctly, due to the complexity to code such a feature. A shame. I guess CF could really leave a mark if it had working X-server BG, even if that alone took a few more months to get it right.

I think they are able to get it working eventually if it is decided that it would improve the experience. It was only ruled to be working from the get go as that would delay the launch. Few months into vanilla however? Perhaps. 

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2 hours ago, Lilaina said:

I thought that was for 5 mans only? Because you don't need many tanks for raids.

 

Those classes aren't as good at PvP based on what I've read though, and I'm not thinking of just vanilla but TBC and WotLK as well since this is a PTE project.

Druid and Priest are the most staple healers of TBC PvP, not sure about Wotlk since I didn't play it that much. But I would say that in 3v3 the priest probably kept it's rule during pretty much every single season. Also SL Warlock/Druid on 2v2 in TBC were absurdly broken until they nerfed overal CC a bit. Furthermore the Warlock in particular is a heck fun class to play in it's less popular destro-build. Which gets love in every expansion, if anything struggled a bit on the TBC late days due to pretty much everyone and their grandmas havings loads of resilence.  

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On 16.6.2017 at 1:06 AM, Calfuron said:

I haven't seen, read about, or thought up of a great solution to this and I doubt there is one that doesn't involve changing the game. Blizzard inherently made the game imbalanced.

The flaw is inherent in the system. Any game that relies on the conflict between two sides will, over time, come to one side massively outnumbering the other. Even if both sides are perfectly balanced, there always will be at least the perception that some ability is better, or that one map slightly favours a side, or, simply, that one side has better players. And as soon as one side is perceived as advantaged, players will trickle to that side, and unless balance is artificially restored (by forbidding new character creation for the over-represented side, for example), that is that.

 

The solution to that is quite simple in concept, but unfortunately impossible for WoW: A three-sides system: Every time a side dominates too much, the two lesser sides will ally, forming a counter-weight. Instead of having a scale where players always only "slide" to one side because it's the heaviest - here, "the heaviest" can and does change. It regulates itself.

 

This, by the way, isn't just something that happens in WoW. It's one of the main reasons Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning died: There was no relief for the weaker faction, no bolster/vent valve that auto-regulates conflict. That's what the third faction does.

There is, for those who are avid world PvPers, a project called Camelot Unchained that's recognized this and is going back to DAoC's roots of all-out, FFA three-faction combat ("RvRvR"). I've never been a fan of WoW's PvP, but I did like WAR's RvR, and I'm quite looking forward to how this turns out.

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2 hours ago, Avila said:

 Even if both sides are perfectly balanced, there always will be at least the perception that some ability is better, or that one map slightly favours a side, or, simply, that one side has better players.

 

AV map does favor the alliance to a ridiculous amount with those archers haha.  The alliance even recognizes this. 

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On 6/17/2017 at 2:52 PM, Hunter4Life said:

 

I have made this mistake before. Looking to see what is least played and rolling that. I won't do it again. 

My female dwarf characters are a reminder of that. lol

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@Veritch I wasn't talking about WoW specifically - the point is that even if devs somehow manage to create two factions that are perfectly balanced, all it takes to destroy it is player perception of some imagined advantage. The only way to circumvent this is to go the "chess route" and simply mirror one side 1:1, taking 90% of the fun out of any MMO: Players want their faction identity.

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