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Hamilton

Do you like Legion?

Neverending run after blizzards carrot -)

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I've never played Legion, was contemplating it but never did. Got my friend's two cents on it though, she spoke very highly of it.

A bit of D&M from me though - I feel like I'm in a state less of a neverending run after blizzard's carrot and more like, I'm remembering what it was like before the carrot went rotten and got all mouldy and shit. Now for me it's like, other people went to the store and bought their own carrots which I would chase, although every now and then someone has grown their own carrot and I chase that one because it's way tastier. Unfortunately though, some carrots that I've been chasing in the past went mouldy too (some faster than others) and then the store burnt down because the owners wanted insurance money and no more carrots were had until the next promising carrot came along.

 

....I like carrots

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too slow paced for my taste being one of a lot of reasons

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Posted (edited)

well...i played it, from day 1 till i got almost exalted with the nightfallen, like, a few weeks later (i forgot, i also did nightmare raid first day it came out)...and even though the game is supposed to be bigger, more things to do, etc...it feels just...smaller than vanilla servers, why? because progresion is way too fast...after i got max level, i had almost all epics on first day...i did all the "daylies" world quests (which were great on progression on lower gear levels) and so goes the list, was really entertaining for a while, but then, way too much grind but unlike vanilla or BC, it feel more like a chore than a good thing to do...also, alts, fuck, till the patch were you could catch up with alts fast, it was necesary to do it all over again, even reputation quest NO THANKS! and so much phasing made almost impossible to play with friends if you or them are behind on X quest on X part of the map...ugh, not a bad expansion, but still, not quite like the golden ages of WoW...and no, it's not nostalgia talking here, it just felt better to have my achievements on old servers, than now on vanilla and the "rare blues" legendary items

Edited by xexomaru
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Played it 2 weeks after release, but quit after that. There is just too much stuff I don't like. Legendaries, artifacts, world quests, randomized gear (aka forged shit), new honor system and last but not least, SURAMAR, the worst zone I have ever been in. I would rather be in blade's edge than Suramar.

I understand why many people like Legion, there is shit ton of stuff to do, but non of that stuff is for me.

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Yeah tbh some of the biggest things I didn't like about WoD (I didn't play MoP extensively or Legion at all) was, although legendary items were required for high end raiding - a significant proportion of the raiding population had them! I liked it when legendaries were.. well, legendary. Also I loathed the crafting system in WoD, really made me feel like it really didn't matter what profession you took up anymore, there didn't seem to be significant perks anymore like there were in BC/WOTLK/Cata.

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Posted (edited)

I liked it. Was way better then WOD.

Eventually I just stopped playing again. At the launch of the expansion I did all the zones and when I was doing the Night fallen story I suddenly could not go further because they had other stuff locked behind reputation. So that was bad point number 1. I was so into the story of the night fallen. Eventually I cared less about the story because by the time I could resume I wasnt as interested in their story anymore.

Another thing that made me not care anymore was the Illidan story. Again, I was engrossed in his story and suddenly I needed to farm heroic dungeons for a certain item. I think maybe we needed 80 or so of them AND we could only get 10 items per week.

Another time gate, so 2 months waiting to see how his story would unfold. Naturally, I stopped caring and in this case I didn't even farmed the items. Fuck that shit.

Artifact power was nice in the beginning but eventually the AP needed was immense. Unfun.

I myself just did other stuff in the game. After 3 months or so (while keeping my AP research up), I farmed all the power for my hunter in a few days because of the big power boost I had because of my research. So a item that gave 6k power earlier now gave me 60k power for example.

Saved me some endless grinding for a few months. Sure, I had to wait but that was more fun then doing itty bitty power gains every damn day.

So they did some great stuff with the new expansion but eventually I unsubbed. The carrot to keep us playing for longer was way more obvious this time then in previous expansions. Too much stuff was time-gated which killed it for me.

Edit: me unsubbing is a good thing because now I have plenty of time to play vanilla wow here on crestfallen when it releases instead of having to split my time to retail wow and vanilla wow.

Edited by Sojiro84
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Pros: I like the feeling of being a part of that big community and up to date with the lore, whatever might have become of it. I know that my progress won't disappear over night because the admins had an argument and shut the server down. I like the new character models and updated graphics in general. There are even more mounts to collect! I can solo old dungeons and raids with no problem (this may be a con to some, but I prefer to do stuff alone).

Cons: The levelling is like doing a massive quest chain. You go from one quest hub to another and there is no need to stray from the road. I don't think there are still places with hidden away, non-mainstream quests. BRING BACK THE OLD BARRENS. You may feel compelled to play because you pay. And you have to update your addons. The player character is a special snowflake.

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26 minutes ago, ilovecats said:

 

Cons: The levelling is like doing a massive quest chain. You go from one quest hub to another and there is no need to stray from the road. I don't think there are still places with hidden away, non-mainstream quests. BRING BACK THE OLD BARRENS. 

Beautiful way of putting it. When Cata destroyed the old world, I was willing to relevel and give it all a go again... but your paragraph perfectly represents my opinion. It started with Cata (well, it sort-of started with TBC, but not to that degree), and the questing/exploring aspect just left the game. "Start in this quest hub, complete, move to next quest hub... rinse repeat." Streamlined for the quickest route to whatever level cap. 

Meh, I guess I'm just getting old. "It wasn't like this in my day! You actually had to zone hop frequently just to level up!" I say as I pass out carmel hard candies and drive my buick...

........ (I've never played past MoP, so my opinion on this matter shouldn't be relevant. @ilovecats paragraph struck a nerve in me that I figured I'd chime in)

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8 hours ago, xexomaru said:

well...i played it, from day 1 till i got almost exalted with the nightfallen, like, a few weeks later (i forgot, i also did nightmare raid first day it came out)...and even though the game is supposed to be bigger, more things to do, etc...it feels just...smaller than vanilla servers, why? because progresion is way too fast...after i got max level, i had almost all epics on first day...i did all the "daylies" world quests (which were great on progression on lower gear levels) and so goes the list, was really entertaining for a while, but then, way too much grind but unlike vanilla or BC, it feel more like a chore than a good thing to do...also, alts, fuck, till the patch were you could catch up with alts fast, it was necesary to do it all over again, even reputation quest NO THANKS! and so much phasing made almost impossible to play with friends if you or them are behind on X quest on X part of the map...ugh, not a bad expansion, but still, not quite like the golden ages of WoW...and no, it's not nostalgia talking here, it just felt better to have my achievements on old servers, than now on vanilla and the "rare blues" legendary items

I actually liked phasing, at least in WotLK.  Sure, it sometimes made it hard to group with friends, but seeing the world change made it worth it.  I remember resubbing one time and leveling through Redridge.  I thought maybe they had patched the bridge to be more repaired than it originally was and show some progression in the world.  I was wrong and kind of disappointed about it.  For sure it requires a balance between storytelling and grouping though.

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Posted (edited)

Played through the demon hunter starting zone on someone else's account last month. It was ok, gliding was especially fun but I know better than to be seduced by the cool cut scenes and voice acting during the opening hours/leveling experience. Replies here and other stuff I've heard confirm my suspicions that it's the same theme park experience followed by meaningless end game progression with added RNG and time-gating this expansion.

2 hours ago, ScubaV said:

I actually liked phasing, at least in WotLK.  Sure, it sometimes made it hard to group with friends, but seeing the world change made it worth it.  I remember resubbing one time and leveling through Redridge.  I thought maybe they had patched the bridge to be more repaired than it originally was and show some progression in the world.  I was wrong and kind of disappointed about it.  For sure it requires a balance between storytelling and grouping though.

Yup. DK area and Wrathgate were examples of phasing done right imo. They took it too far in Icecrown Glacier though, and cross-realm phasing ruined the game (or what was left of it) for good.

Edited by Lilaina
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Overall content in legion is awesome, they learnt their lesson From WOD. However, the amount of time gating and grinding required to raid mythic puts naxx and sunwell to shame... 

 

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Was fun for a little while, but I felt bored with the constant dailies and raid logging. Plus you know, 3 versions of the same raid was a snore, and relying on RNG mythic dungeons. eugh

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Coming from someone who's played actively in a top 5 2day/week guild entire expansion:

The content's fantastic. The amount of RNG and the amount of times it's worth to do that same content make things dull rather quickly if you care about optimizing your character. The guild I'm in and my friends who I'm playing with still make the game entertaining almost one year into the expansion. Nothing sweeter than pushing some higher mythic+ keys in evenings or trying to do a brand new pve encounter. I don't envy people in hardcore raiding guilds, the amount of time they need to spent to maintain their spot at that level is just ridiculous in Legion. But if you're a pve type of guy who doesn't care about being in the very top - it's great, I'd definitely recommend it if you can find a good guild. If you just want to try the content out - I'd wait till 7.3 is out and then you'll definitely get your money's worth. Plenty of interesting story, class specific, solo, group content that is delightful as long as you don't overdo it. I haven't done much pvp in Legion so I won't comment on that part of the game, but the community there seems very upset. But then again, I don't recall them ever being satisfied.

Also, it's very easy to pick up the game at this stage, there are plenty of catch-up mechanics that will get you up to speed in no time at all regardless of what you want to do. Write me a pm if you're interested, can give you a quick guide on what you want to do if you care about picking up raiding again.

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I quit a little bit after Nighthold came out because reasons.

 

Did I like Legion? Not enough, this is the expansion that made me quit, though it's more the dev decisions behind it then it was the actual content that Legion brought. I liked the content it brought. The Artifacts, the class specific quests, etc. I still intend to pay more gold to see the end of the Death Knight campaign. I have to see how that plays out. I liked all of those things. And Survival Hunters. Survival was a really fun spec. What I didn't like was the sheer resistance to flying the devs continuously display and the changes to Blood Death Knight. Flying would've made doing all the world quests take like half as long, if not faster then that. As an altaholic, that would've been a godsend, but nope. The changes to Blood made it so weak. My Warrior co-tank took like.........half the damage I took, and I know he's always taken less damage then I did because of the shield and things, but Death Strike was terrible.

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No, imo it got worse every expansion since Cataclysm. WoD and Legion reached a point where the game is simply not enjoyable anymore.

 

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I'm a Vanilla only type of guy. None of the expansions appeal to me. Legion just continues the trend of modern WoW. That is, a polished game that feels more single player than MMO.

 

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Posted (edited)

ive read stuff about the story in legion being terrible

perhaps someone could elaborate upon metzen's terrible writing? i havent played retail since late wotlk

Edited by Aquane
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10 hours ago, Aquane said:

ive read stuff about the story in legion being terrible

perhaps someone could elaborate upon metzen's terrible writing? i havent played retail since late wotlk

I thought Metzen quit?

MMO champion seems to have found out how the expansion ends (massive spoilers if you still care about retail ofc): http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/6786-ToS-Progress-Patch-7-3-PTR-NPC-Conversation-Lines-Knights-of-the-Frozen-Throne?page=3#comments

Can't say I'm too impressed. They just copy-pasted WotLK's ending and it all sounds like way too scifi and the player characters are apparently powerful enough to fight titans/baby-titans now? :P

 

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Posted (edited)

On 2. 7. 2017 at 6:21 PM, Lilaina said:

Yup. DK area and Wrathgate were examples of phasing done right imo. They took it too far in Icecrown Glacier though, and cross-realm phasing ruined the game (or what was left of it) for good.

It's very funny how the came with the revolutionary idea of phasing... and then did nothing with it. The only thing was the DK questline, and then nothing, even more of nothing if you opted to level up that DK, because you had to redo TBC content, and then finally, just as you were hitting max level, it happened in IC. That zone is basically a small cataclysm. Heavy amount of phasing and moving between quest hubs.

The rest of wotlk was the quest hub switching, which saw its first boom on TBC. Even retroactively (Mudsprocket, for example). Though back then they were careful and added a lot of extra stuff that was out of the way. Also some of the hubs even make sense in lore, apart from "we are a special team of special people so we set up a special camp in a special place and now we wait for an extra special person to help us, the special people, complete the special mission". Alliance-side Zangarmarsh, for example. You got CE, you got the space goats on the mushroom and you got Orebor Harborage. Three hubs, three different reasons for being around and generally different attitudes. Wotlk was really the same thing, but with things moved closer to the path you'd take. And with some minimal phasing later on. I guess they didn't have the workings of it quite down yet so they focused on releasing instead of trying new things. And in some cases, like Borean Tundra or Zul'Drak, it even worked (note, this is one of the only two things Borean Tundra is good at - interesting hubs and Valliance Keep. Everything else is a good reason to go to Howling Fjord, which, ironically, doesn't have very interesting quest hubs but everything else is pretty much amazing).

In that regard I think the DK start made it the closest to what people expected - you're still in the same place for the whole storyline, but that place keeps changing. Unlike the cata zones where you did quest hub A, it changed, then they sent you to quest hub B, scarcely ever using A again.
Funnily enough, one of the best zones for me in Cata was Redridge, where minimal phasing was involved. Crazy, huh.

 

On 2. 7. 2017 at 2:39 PM, Ugondiss said:

 

Meh, I guess I'm just getting old. "It wasn't like this in my day! You actually had to zone hop frequently just to level up!" I say as I pass out carmel hard candies and drive my buick...

 

Hard caramel candies are great though. For me, it's possibly the most acceptable form of caramel. On the other end of that spectrum is that premade caramel pudding with whipped cream on top they sell in plastic cups. I'd rather eat the vanilla one.

18 hours ago, Aquane said:

ive read stuff about the story in legion being terrible

perhaps someone could elaborate upon metzen's terrible writing? i havent played retail since late wotlk

Metzen presumably finally got tired after writing holy-infused army-of-the-light-commander Illidan (spoiling an otherwise very good book in the process) and retired.

Most of the contention in lore lately stems from the major changes to background lore, which, as Blizzard does, didn't occur ingame, but in the supplementary textbooks. Basically The Burning Legion isn't the ultimate evil in the universe anymore - technically, they're lawful neutral, but that doesn't stop them from killing you and raping your planet. The torch of ultimate evil was passed to something called Void Lords, who conveniently reside outside our universe. So we can't punch  them. They desire to eat all the life, and destroy the universe in the process. To which Sargeras took an objection and after using logic figured out this:
wNYTRp5.jpg

And then he killed the Titans and went on to kill everyone in the universe with fire. Demons don't count as they are from Nether and Nether doesn't have what we (and the Void Lolds too, apparently) classify as life. Another changes to the canon include the fact that Old Gods are the only way for Void Lords to get into our universe, somehow, so they splooged them blindly in, hoping they will hit some planets. Which makes it extra special that Azeroth got five of them. Four (C'thun, N'zoth (whose first appearance was in Hearthstone, good job), Yogurt-Saron and whatever the wow name for Shub-Niggurath is). Nevermind, another retcon. Also it means that the old gods themselves aren't anything special, as by this logic, there are billions of them across the universe.

Why do they want to get some planets? Well. Another fun part of the new lore. See, having Titans be eternal beyond time was not enough, so now we learn that they come from eggs. And when I say eggs, I mean planets. That's right, any given planet in the universe can have a titan world soul inside (but neither the Titans nor the Void Lords can tell without looking really closely). And the old gods' mission is to find one and pass on their old god juice and corrupt it, so it becomes a super-edgy titan of darkness, essentially Giant Evil Space JesusTM who can help the Void Lords to get into the universe. Somehow.

Surprise surprise, Azeroth is one such a planetary egg. But not just your ordinary planet egg! Just like every single last player character on it, this one is unique and special! It's the most powerful titan soul ever found! So whatever remains of Titans and their servants have extra reasons to protect it. Sargeras has particular interest in killing it before it hatches because even though if it becomes a titan, it would be powerful enough to duke it out with the Void Lords, he doesn't want to risk the chance it gets corrupted. And Old Gods and Void Lords have giant incentive to impregnate the titan soul with their splooge.

You know, I think there's some sort of metaphor going on here. There's this outside force that is different from our universe that we are in, but it can inject something inside, and then you have these eggs and the injected stuff buries deep inside them and then merges with what's gestating in the egg in effort of creating a new being. Hmm. Not sure what is Buzzard trying to say here. I think an analogy could be made. But to what? Hmmmmm....

Oh, anyway. All that means that Legion is a three-way battle. We get The Burning Legion thrown into our faces and try to stop it, while the Old Gods snicker and go corrupting.
Also apparently demons now exist across all possible timelines and cannot be killed unless you do it in the Nether which also doesn't have time so it's outside of alternate realities... wait. How does that even make sense? Who knows. Blizzard.  My theory is that they made this after WoD, because the stupid stuff with resurrected Mannoroth and Archimonde and with Gul'dan in Legion confirming that breaching into our timeline is a possibility, would mean that we'd have to fight not one, but two Burning Legions. Stupid writing can be only solved by more stupid writing.

Also some people don't like that Sylvan Ass is now the Warchief and Vol'jin died after doing nothing the whole WoD since it was outside of his home turf and as far as I know, it focused on Gul'dan and Yrel. People liked Vol'jin. He was the first truly reasonable Horde commander since WC3 Thrall who actually did something. Remember the civil war against Garrosh? Well, after that setup they left him sit and then die. And so far it doesn't seem like he's coming back. Which is somewhat meh, seeing as he's on first name basis with the loa of death.

Oh and to counterbalance Void Lords, we now have an Elder Naaru. Woo. And a holy dreadlord.

Btw, Turalyon and Valeera spent the last 20 years by battling the Burning Legion as a part of the Grand Army of Light for the past 1000 years. Yea, it makes about as much sense as it sounds.
Oh and Alonsus Faol is back from the dead (accompanied by Calia Menethil herself). And by that I mean he's been undead since the fall of Lordaeron, but stayed hidden until now. Many clever. So intelligence. Wow.

8 hours ago, Lilaina said:

Can't say I'm too impressed. They just copy-pasted WotLK's ending and it all sounds like way too scifi and the player characters are apparently powerful enough to fight titans/baby-titans now? :P

 

Tl;dr. Well, they remebered Arator the Redeemer exists. Great. At this point I can't even tell anymore if it's someone genuinely trying to use established lore and not making up new pukeworthy one-issue characters (like that little shit Yrel) or if it's fanservice. Because this struck me as a fanservice expansion ever sicne I first heard about the features and people returning.

There must always be a Lich Demon King!

 

On 9. 7. 2017 at 7:41 AM, Xsaeta said:

What I didn't like was the sheer resistance to flying the devs continuously display

You know, it's kind of ironic how some vanilla people consider WoD / Legion the antithesis of vanilla, but those two expansions wanted to restrict flying. Which is a thing the vanilla people frequently complain about existing. It's funny.

Edited by Xaverius
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3 hours ago, Xaverius said:

Basically The Burning Legion isn't the ultimate evil in the universe anymore - technically, they're lawful neutral, but that doesn't stop them from killing you and raping your planet.

I would argue that Sargeras is neutral evil and that the titans are lawful neutral: Sargeras uses both lawful and chaotic methods but his actions are evil. Those actions may be driven by fear/madness but they're still evil. Titans are lawful neutral cuz they only care about bringing order into the universe while most demons in the legion are chaotic evil.

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, Xaverius said:

You know, it's kind of ironic how some vanilla people consider WoD / Legion the antithesis of vanilla, but those two expansions wanted to restrict flying. Which is a thing the vanilla people frequently complain about existing. It's funny.

I'd hardly consider myself a "vanilla person", tbh. If I was, I'd have played a vanilla server ages ago. Crestfall is truly my first serious foray into a vanilla private server, unless you count leveling on Elysium just to figure out what the questing path is. I haven't even finished that beyond like, level 16 still, heh. Personally, I'm not gonna care that vanilla doesn't have flying. Vanilla was designed before flying even existed, and I can't rightfully complain about content that was made before flying was even in the game anywhere at all, not having flying. It'll be fine.

It's kind of funny though, I didn't really consider WoD to be a bad expansion simply because of "lack of flying". I found it an okay one because the raids were fun. it just lacked things to do outside of the raids. So no flying + no reason to go outside of the garrison and into the world, just meant I didn't care about the lack of flying.

Legion, that clearly changed. I wouldn't have minded the lack of flying so much if it didn't take me half a day to get everything done because they intentionally designed the terrain to be as obnoxious as they possibly could make it. Truly though, I should've added this in the original post, but I didn't think about it. The raid team that I had since MoP, drama happened and I was given reason to leave it, and once I had a taste of the real raiding that WoW had to offer, WoW seemed pointless if I wasn't really raiding anymore. After 3 expansions worth of raiding, I needed a break, so with no raid team keeping me in the game, I finally quit.

Edited by Xsaeta
fixed a few sentences
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