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Do you use vanilla-wow.wikia.com?

Do you use vanilla-wow.wikia.com?   30 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you use vanilla-wow.wikia.com?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      20

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Greetings,

I am thinking about updating vanilla-wow.wikia.com and doing some work for the community, but first I need to know if it's actually worth the time.

 

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It seems to be a fake wikia page with how bad it is. I facepalm when I see people link to it. Most of its info is either from TBC or later and would need a lot of work to make it a useable Vanilla WoW wiki. I don't think it's really worth it to do so, as people just use one of the "wowhead"-esque sites that are around which will have mostly the same information anyway.

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16 minutes ago, Malediction said:

It seems to be a fake wikia page with how bad it is. I facepalm when I see people link to it. Most of its info is either from TBC or later and would need a lot of work to make it a useable Vanilla WoW wiki. I don't think it's really worth it to do so, as people just use one of the "wowhead"-esque sites that are around which will have mostly the same information anyway.

I'd say Wiki is more for learning about the lore, but yeah I still agree there's more people using Databases.

2 minutes ago, Clavus said:

I use that aswell.

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Most of the lore is still available on retail sources like wowpedia, even if a lot of it has been retconned or explained. If you're looking for a source of lore that only leads up to the events of 1.12 for RP purposes, then I guess it could be useful. I don't know if there's any sources out there for things like that.

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Posted (edited)

A good Vanilla wiki would be freaking amazing, like how Old School Runescape has http://oldschoolrunescape.wikia.com/wiki/2007scape_Wiki .

Unfortunately Vanilla wow wiki sucks as it is now, so much false information. I think it would need an overhaul, so many mechanics on Vanilla wow wiki are from future versions of the game, incomplete, or just plane wrong. It would probably be better to build a new wiki from scratch.

Edited by Pvt_8Ball
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It would be interesting to have a dump of proper formulas for Vanilla.

In the process of building Crestfall, we've encountered a large number of mechanics that previously had been estimated, hacked, or just used TBC or Wrath versions of the calculations.

Due to some excellent research and generous contributions of time and trouble from our alpha and beta testers, we've successfully reverse-engineered a number of them, but that information won't be made public at the present time.  We may decide to release it later, at which point a wiki page might be a good way to do it.

As it is, the biggest weakness the wiki pages have is a reliance on generalizations, or formulas that only work at level 60, if the formulas exist at all.  It was mentioned in one of my blog posts how I reverse engineered a more accurate formula for converting intellect to spell crit.  Roadblock and a few of the other testers reverse engineered proper formulas for hp, mp and stat gain for each levelup.  Work was done to develop a much more accurate formula for advancing weapon and defense skill points.  I was able to crack itemization point values using a fairly simple formula as well, so that I could derive proc rates for various weapons appropriate to their level, the strength of the effect, and the other modifiers on the weapon.  Those are just a few examples, it gets worse when you have mechanics that changed frequently (see: extra strikes) or for which there are several competing theories (see: glancing blow damage reduction.)

All these things had to be worked out by hand through a lot of hard work; there's no readily available resource for them.  The wiki pages are heavy on the "player advice" side, but often vague to useless from a developer perspective.  For now, it makes sense for us to protect our work, as it will be what separates us from other projects.  Once that is no longer a point of necessity, I'd be more than happy to share all that information with the rest of the community.

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That would be great @Darkrasp 

Yeah that wiki is kinda dated and not very high quality. Would need a bit of work to bring it up to a good standard.

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8 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

It was mentioned in one of my blog posts how I reverse engineered a more accurate formula for converting intellect to spell crit

it seems that I didn't see this post; nevertheless, does this mean that e.g. the (I think it was 28 int) assumed int for 1 spellcrit for paladins is incorrect?

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@Darkrasp Have you thought about releasing your own database to the public like this? Would be really great since different servers have different Databases and with that different drop rates. Also, it's no longer possible to post comments on that database, making it even worse.

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On 7/8/2017 at 6:45 PM, Clavus said:

Also, Wiki is really useful for pages like this. You might think that you can also find this from a database, but I've noticed that some things are not labelled correctly, for example Item Enchantments and Food. Crestfall releasing it's own Database could simply fix it though.

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8 hours ago, Rele said:

@Darkrasp Have you thought about releasing your own database to the public like this? Would be really great since different servers have different Databases and with that different drop rates. Also, it's no longer possible to post comments on that database, making it even worse.

they thought about it already. It is still unknown to this point if they want to do so because it is a lot of work (and could potentially delay the release aswell?)

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17 hours ago, Rele said:

@Darkrasp Have you thought about releasing your own database to the public like this?

Thought about it, but it's unlikely for three reasons.  One, we don't want to release our research out into the open where it's just going to get sniped right away.  I have no problem making it public once we've moved past Vanilla, but until then the smart move is to keep it closer to the chest.  Two, because building a site is a waste of developer time while we still have core and database work to do.

Three, because I really like the idea of players doing it on their own using loot addons to make their own Crestfall-Wowhead.  I'd love to be able to compare the drop rates I programmed in with what the players are actually seeing.

 

On 7/9/2017 at 7:49 AM, Budge said:

it seems that I didn't see this post; nevertheless, does this mean that e.g. the (I think it was 28 int) assumed int for 1 spellcrit for paladins is incorrect?

There are several assumptions for Paladin int/crit rating, all based on spotty, observed information rather than hard math.  The 28 int for 1 spellcrit comes from Paladins with approx 150 intellect getting roughly 5% crit.  The issue is that's not exactly how spellcrit works.  Tseric made a whole post about how classes have an "expected intellect" value, ie., the amount of intellect they expect you to have through a combination of gear and base stats.  If you have the expected intellect, you have exactly 5% crit, then you gain additional crit per point of intellect above the expected value, and are penalized below it.

The problem with 1% crit per 28 int isn't that it's wrong, it's actually pretty close, since the Paladin expected intellect at 60 is, I believe, 150 (Mage is the highest at 286, the rest of the classes all fall in between those two).  The problem is that the formula doesn't work at any other level.  Tseric specifically mentioned this, and yet the same formula is in use for all levels pretty  much everywhere.

My formula scales the value of expected int with level.  As long as you are equipping "average" gear as you go along, your spell crit rate should be hovering around 5% from level 1 through to level 60.

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That is fantastic news @Darkrasp, do you plan to release the actual data for the players to calculate their BIS tiers etc? I am eager to know how much int I do need at 60 to calculate my spellcrit ;)

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Since this is the first time I ever hear about this page, safe to say, no. I usually just use archived wowwiki pages from vanilla years and/or Allakhazam.

20 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

Three, because I really like the idea of players doing it on their own using loot addons to make their own Crestfall-Wowhead.  I'd love to be able to compare the drop rates I programmed in with what the players are actually seeing.


Well that'd still necessitate a page that would support upload from those addons. Unless I'm being dim and you mean a player-by-player cases. Though besides, those addons would be as fallible as the wowhead ones... looting herbs while having mob corpse in target resulting in super stupid records, etc :P.

I remebmer though you did at one point say that the wiki is possible, but without specific numerical drop rates, just an ordering from most likely to least likely.

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