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ClawzTheMeow

Net Neutrality

48 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I don't understand why US government does this.
Internet is suppose to be something everyone can enjoy at any give time of their lives imo

 

 

Edited by ClawzTheMeow
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2 hours ago, ClawzTheMeow said:

I don't understand why US government does this.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/7e/7e7307a5b173bd3f0811357074c1ab75510f07b6d023f2f32db9de8ba373bd49.jpg

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People complained about alot of stuff that Obama did, at least Obama was trying to improve the state of life of every American.
Try thinking that about Trump.

yea you just got Trump'd B|

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Posted (edited)

44 minutes ago, ClawzTheMeow said:

People complained about alot of stuff that Obama did, at least Obama was trying to improve the state of life of every American.

Yeah, meanwhile he was also waging wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, North-West Pakistan, Libya, Syria and Nigeria. That AFTER he got a Nobel Peace Prize O.o. What a great man! EDIT: why was the USA in those countries during his administration? Did any of them initially attack the USA?

Edited by loeth
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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, loeth said:

Yeah, meanwhile he was also waging wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, North-West Pakistan, Libya, Syria and Nigeria. That AFTER he got a Nobel Peace Prize O.o. What a great man! EDIT: why was the USA in those countries during his administration? Did any of them initially attack the USA?

I don't really know, i'm not american, but i feel like he was just managing wars created by the previous administration a.k.a the bush administration.
 

Edited by ClawzTheMeow
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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, loeth said:

Yeah, meanwhile he was also waging wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, North-West Pakistan, Libya, Syria and Nigeria. That AFTER he got a Nobel Peace Prize O.o. What a great man! EDIT: why was the USA in those countries during his administration? Did any of them initially attack the USA?

Bush started the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Libya was a NATO project above all else and UK and France were mostly in charge there afaik. Dunno bout Nigeria but the US messed up in Pakistan, sure. Obama should have done more in Syria to stop Assad imo.

Anyway, criticizing any single US president for being a part of conflicts in the Middle East is silly. You can trace back the troubles there to Imperialism, the Cold War and previous administrations and most of the blame should be pointed at people who are dead or retired from politics. At least Obama was a decent human being with values from this century unlike the greedy slimeballs in Congress or the thin-skinned piece of human garbage in the White House.

/end rant

Edited by Lilaina
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Expert american here. Born and raized and lived round these parts.

...

...

...

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Does it take away my God and Guns?

No? Then it's A okay by me.

Libs unite! 

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I don't know about Trump but i know for sure Obama was a good president

 

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1 hour ago, ClawzTheMeow said:

I don't really know, i'm not american, but i feel like he was just managing wars created by the previous administration a.k.a the bush administration.
 

Obama was president from 2009 to 2017.

Afghanistan war was from 2001 to 2014 -> 5 years during Obama. And then restarted in 2015 -> during Obama.

Iraq war was between 2003 and 2011 -> 2 years during Obama.

War in North-West Pakistan started in 2004 and is still on going somewhat -> 8 years during Obama.

Libyan Civil War was in 2011 -> Totally during Obama.

War on ISIL (in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Nigeria)  started in 2014 and is still going -> Started during Obama.

The Nobel Comitee should seriously review this one....

22 minutes ago, Lilaina said:

Anyway, criticizing any single US president for being a part of conflicts in the Middle East is silly. You can trace back the troubles there to Imperialism, the Cold War and previous administrations and most of the blame should be pointed at people who are dead or retired from politics. At least Obama was a decent human being with values from this century unlike the greedy slimeballs in Congress or the thin-skinned piece of human garbage in the White House.

Well this is not really fitting into this topic. I criticize not only Obama, but all of them. But I responded to someone who wrote about Obama. I am not fond of the others, mind you. I also criticize all american citizens. How the hell can you not stop your government from going into wars and killing innocent people?? Oh yeah, because you are at home, watching netflix, playing WoW, eating a pizza you ordered with an XL Coke. The american way of life, isn't it?

Disclaimer: I am not saying americans are less politically engaged then others, as in Europe most people are just as passive. But you complained I criticized only your beloved Obama, so that's what called for this reply.

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Hey i'm Portuguese, my government is corrupted too but i find it a bit awkward American presidents constantly sending american troops to their death instead of stopping the wars going on.
For example Iraq was a really good country to visit and everyone was happy before the war.
Everything America touches just goes to sh*t

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Well, while the war in Iraq wasn't justified and founded on lies, saying that "everyone was happy before the war" is a pretty bold claim. Ask the Kurds and the Shia about how happy they were.

 

But yes, the Iraq war gave rise to ISIS, so the war pretty much screwed everyone in Iraq over and made their lives worse. We'll see how it all turns out, and the only thing we can do now is to help the people of Iraq to rebuild their country, and maybe not start anymore wars in that region.

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1 hour ago, loeth said:

Well this is not really fitting into this topic. I criticize not only Obama, but all of them. But I responded to someone who wrote about Obama. I am not fond of the others, mind you.

Fair enough.

 

1 hour ago, loeth said:

Obama was president from 2009 to 2017.

Afghanistan war was from 2001 to 2014 -> 5 years during Obama. And then restarted in 2015 -> during Obama.

Iraq war was between 2003 and 2011 -> 2 years during Obama.

War in North-West Pakistan started in 2004 and is still on going somewhat -> 8 years during Obama.

Libyan Civil War was in 2011 -> Totally during Obama.

War on ISIL (in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Nigeria)  started in 2014 and is still going -> Started during Obama.

The Nobel Comitee should seriously review this one....

I do agree that giving the prize to a politician during the beginning of his presidency and not afterwards is stupid. Obama himself has jokingly said afterwards that he's not sure why he was given the prize. My guess is that the people who made the choice wanted to criticize the Bush-administration more than anything with their decision. Also worth pointing out that he won the peace prize in 2009. The wars that started during Obama's watch hadn't tarnished his reputation yet. He was only dealing with the mess(es) left behind by Bush and others.

 

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12 minutes ago, Rawne said:

Well, while the war in Iraq wasn't justified and founded on lies, saying that "everyone was happy before the war" is a pretty bold claim. Ask the Kurds and the Shia about how happy they were.

 

But yes, the Iraq war gave rise to ISIS, so the war pretty much screwed everyone in Iraq over and made their lives worse. We'll see how it all turns out, and the only thing we can do now is to help the people of Iraq to rebuild their country, and maybe not start anymore wars in that region.

ye u made my point even better without the war ISIS wouldn't happen or maybe even worse could happen.
I don't know, i prefer not to think much about it lol

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There was no good US president since Kennedy and you know it. There will never be one again - because how voting system works. Don't you ever think that anyone can be raised before being "approved" by the two parties, that are the two sides of the same coin - THE COIN - the Mammon, the god of money - the epitome of capitalism. The families that run that are so many, but they don't represent american interests, or any other interests, but their own. Its not even funny that you fall for this and call any US president good or bad, there is nothing that they do, but pose for photos, they decide nothing, but the pharmacy industry, military industry, tobacco industry, oil industry and so on, you catch my drift. You should watch some more videos in internet, instead of cnn or fox to just get a glimpse of the iceberg. Think more, don't you ever get all you read or watch for granted. And always ask yourselves - where comes from the money for all of this and what is the end result of all this(for example ISIS). And since you mentioned ISIS in this thread - this was US financed and trained organization and its still protected by US forces - they only bomb Assad forces and help ISIS. The photos with Al'Bagdadi and McCain are just icing on the cake. And this is all recent. What about 9/11, Panama, Chile, Venezuela and almost all latin-american and middle-eastern countries? US economy will die in less than a year if they are in no war.

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To anyone trying to defend Obamas national policies: check out the US national debt. Specifically the Obama years. 08 was the financial crisis and the bailouts were over by 09, the first year of the Obama presidency. Since then the national debt has doubled anyway. It's so big that they can't feasibly increase the interest rate to where it needs to be, or they won't be able to pay interest to their lenders. If they don't increase the interest rate you inevitably get bubbles in the economy.

The dollar is going down, the question is only how and how far. Either way it will impact the global economy downwards. If I had savings, I'd invest in metals over the coming years. And a gun.

Regarding Trump. He was dealt an absolute shit hand, not only for the above reason. Don't listen to the msm and try to look at actual sources, not sensationalist fluff.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, ups1dedomn said:

Regarding Trump. He was dealt an absolute shit hand, not only for the above reason.

Just like Obama was dealt "a shit hand" by Bush.

1 hour ago, ups1dedomn said:

Don't listen to the msm and try to look at actual sources, not sensationalist fluff.

You mean sources like Trump's own mouth and twitter? My view of him is based on those. :P

Edited by Lilaina
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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, ClawzTheMeow said:

 but i feel like he was just managing wars created by the previous administration
 

I don't really have problems with opinions based in fact regardless of what side of the aisle people fall on.  An educated opinion and the conclusion drawn from it are usually derived from individual perspectives based off life experiences and usually aren't so much about the facts, but how people react to facts. No offense, but it is just ridiculous and ignorant for a grown adult to ignore facts and talk about how they feel.  Either he was just managing other people wars or he wasn't.  Your feelings have nothing to do with it.  Secondly, he either managed them well or he didn't.  Some would say pulling out of Iraq was a good move and others a poor move.  I believe history has since shown that leaving Iraq was a poor decision.  Going in was a poor decision as well, but two poor decisions leave to shitty results (ISIS) that cause more problems. 

11 hours ago, Lilaina said:

Bush started the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He did, Afghanistan was justified, Iraq was not.  However, Obama not only continue the Afghan war, but increased the military presence there. IMO, this was a prudent move.  He should have held on to Iraq also, the only reason he pulled out was political.  The people of Iraq would have been better served with an American presence there, and I think history has shown this to be true. They weren't ready to defend and run their country.  They should have been left alone from the beginning but since we fucked that up, we shouldn't have fucked up the end-game and we should have stayed till the job was done right.  Now look.

11 hours ago, Lilaina said:

Libya was a NATO project above all else and UK and France were mostly in charge there afaik.

I don't know if this is a sensitive subject in Europe or not, so I guess we'll find out lol.  The US is NATO.  Libya would not have happened without US support.  The military budgets in most all NATO countries don't even meet their pledged amount.  If the US had said no to Libya, there would have been no Libya.  Absolving Obama because he didn't put boots on the ground is silly.  The US simply didn't take full operational command as is typically customary in NATO led operations.  But rest assured, if NATO does anything, it is because the US president said so and signed on.

 

11 hours ago, Lilaina said:

Obama should have done more in Syria to stop Assad imo.

 

He should have either kept out of it completely or had the stones to back up his mouth.  When an American president draws a "red-line" in the sand he is expected to follow through.  He looked like an ass when he balked after the use of chemical weapons and I, as an American, was embarrassed.  If he had stayed out of it from the beginning, I wouldn't have cared.  But he stuck his nose in it, puffed out his chest, then back tracked like a 12 year old when push came to shove.  Russia came in and "saved the day".  For those of you not in the know, the whole conflict in Syria is based on access to oil and gas.  A pipeline was going to be built to Europe through Syria to supply Europe with natural gas and oil which currently is basically monopolized by Russia (no wonder Russia cares so much huh?).  Russia knows how much money they make off you guys and the only reason they are involved in Syria is to take your money. It costs them so much more to not be involved in Syria.  Obama dropped the ball big time on this one, and it is costing all of you money to say nothing about the refugee crisis.

 

11 hours ago, Lilaina said:

At least Obama was a decent human being with values from this century

Obama was a politician, nothing more.  His public values were just as much those he felt were needed to get elected.  Don't fall into the trap of pinning public expression of values to how someone really is first of all.  Second of all, values from this century are incredibly diverse.  Many values in this century you likely disagree with.  Afghanistan values, for instance, are a this century thing which I'm sure you fervently despise.  What you meant when you say "values from this century" is really "values I agree with".  I don't care if someone is liberal or conservative or somewhere in the middle like myself, but what I hate more than anything is condescension and elitism from either side.  The notion that values people have that don't align with yours and are somehow outdated is insulting to so many more people than you realize. If you were open-minded enough to really survey the world and see who shares your values I think you would find that you are in the overwhelming minority of human beings who hold your values, the over-whelming minority.  The whole population of European union is around 500 million, or about 7% of the population of the world.  Think about that for a moment....

 

11 hours ago, ClawzTheMeow said:

 but i know for sure Obama was a good president

I don't know you at all, and I'm not saying Obama was a bad president.  All I'm saying is that based off of what I've seen of your thought processes, this is only about how you feel and doesn't have much to do with facts.  I would put money down that I could show you 100 things Obama really messed up, you would just ignore it all in the same way that an Obama hater would ignore 100 good things he did.  It is just biased, non-intelligent opinions based off emotional responses and has nothing to do with what actually happened.  Congratulations, you are average.

10 hours ago, ClawzTheMeow said:

Hey i'm Portuguese, my government is corrupted too but i find it a bit awkward American presidents constantly sending american troops to their death instead of stopping the wars going on.
For example Iraq was a really good country to visit and everyone was happy before the war.
Everything America touches just goes to sh*t

You're country is mired with unemployment, poor governance, and a social structure that stymies work ethic through vast social programs.  I met a few Portuguese in graduate school, none of whom wanted to return because of how horrible jobs were to find there, one who even took drastic measures to get out of his student visa contingencies to stay.  The fact that you say those things about Iraq, you should be embarrassed but you don't know enough about it to be embarrassed. Iraq was shit before we went in, and is just shittier now that we came and went.  All Iraq was before we went there was stable and we took that away.  Our fault, no doubt, but we should have stayed, that was so obvious and Obama left for political reasons (he promised during his campaigns) and absolutely not for the benefit of the Iraqi or neighboring countries benefit, in fact, in spite of it.

8 hours ago, Joyman said:

There was no good US president since Kennedy and you know it. There will never be one again - because how voting system works. Don't you ever think that anyone can be raised before being "approved" by the two parties, that are the two sides of the same coin - THE COIN - the Mammon, the god of money - the epitome of capitalism. The families that run that are so many, but they don't represent american interests, or any other interests, but their own. Its not even funny that you fall for this and call any US president good or bad, there is nothing that they do, but pose for photos, they decide nothing, but the pharmacy industry, military industry, tobacco industry, oil industry and so on, you catch my drift. You should watch some more videos in internet, instead of cnn or fox to just get a glimpse of the iceberg. Think more, don't you ever get all you read or watch for granted. And always ask yourselves - where comes from the money for all of this and what is the end result of all this(for example ISIS). And since you mentioned ISIS in this thread - this was US financed and trained organization and its still protected by US forces - they only bomb Assad forces and help ISIS. The photos with Al'Bagdadi and McCain are just icing on the cake. And this is all recent. What about 9/11, Panama, Chile, Venezuela and almost all latin-american and middle-eastern countries? US economy will die in less than a year if they are in no war.

Lolz, Reagan and Clinton were both excellent presidents, though both had their faults. 

Most people incorrectly always blame or praise the president when things go poorly or go well.  You are right in that the power and control of the president is much more limited than people realize and much power is held by people in unelected positions.  But this is one of the big presidential power in and of itself, to make appointments. Also, legislatively, the President wields enormous power with his ability to veto legislation.  But you're overall point is correct, that the president has far less power than people realize and that often they are just a figure head that serves to represent a country in many occasions.

The US economy would not collapse without a war lol.  Most US wars do economical harm in the long-run and benefit only a select few industries that have a small effect on the overall health of the US economy.  Statements like this are only made by people who don't understand the breadth and complexity of both economics in general, and how diversifies the American economy really is.  Without big expenditures on war, the economy would likely do better, especially if that money was being spent on economically minded programs.  So just....no.

 

/end rant

Edited by Veritch
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USA foreign policySaudie.jpg

2 minutes ago, Veritch said:

Afghanistan was justified

If memory serves me well usa provided same talibans with weapons back in 80s.

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4 minutes ago, Sallerius said:

USA foreign policySaudie.jpg

If memory serves me well usa provided same talibans with weapons back in 80s.

We did, you aren't going to get an America is perfect line from me.  We aren't. Other than that, I'm not sure what to say to your post.

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Just now, Veritch said:

We did, you aren't going to get an America is perfect line from me.  We aren't. Other than that, I'm not sure what to say to your post.

Nah, just saying all USA warrs, none of them was justified. Its all geopolitical interest...nothing more.Hey, i bet if Iceland was in US position, they would be doing the same thing.

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Damn all i wanted was people speaking about Internet Neutrality and now we're deep in Politics.
Everything just ends up in either Boobs or Politics looool

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4 minutes ago, Sallerius said:

Nah, just saying all USA warrs, none of them was justified. Its all geopolitical interest...nothing more.Hey, i bet if Iceland was in US position, they would be doing the same thing.

WWII was justified, but you're right.  The rest is almost all geopolitical interests.  Propping up supportive governments, working against uncooperative ones.  Ethics and morals mean little most of the time.

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Posted (edited)

@Veritch

Agree with most of the stuff you wrote, Obama's half measures in Syria especially.

1 hour ago, Veritch said:

Obama was a politician, nothing more.  His public values were just as much those he felt were needed to get elected.  Don't fall into the trap of pinning public expression of values to how someone really is first of all.  Second of all, values from this century are incredibly diverse.  Many values in this century you likely disagree with.  Afghanistan values, for instance, are a this century thing which I'm sure you fervently despise.  What you meant when you say "values from this century" is really "values I agree with".  I don't care if someone is liberal or conservative or somewhere in the middle like myself, but what I hate more than anything is condescension and elitism from either side.  The notion that values people have that don't align with yours and are somehow outdated is insulting to so many more people than you realize and if you were open-minded enough to really survey the world and see who shares your values I think you would find that you are in the overwhelming minority of human beings who hold your values, the over-whelming minority.

I don't really care if it's elitism or condescension or what but I consider the values that Trump and many (but not all) Republicans promote to be disgusting and think that they have no place in the 21st century. Things like anti-abortion legislation, discrimination, casual racism, sexism, and enthusiasm to cut support from the poor just so the wealthiest 1% are better off are all things that they promote either directly or indirectly and have no place in today's society as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure Obama was a politician first but actions are what count and he was against all of the above in practice and therefore he has my respect. If I insult someone who thinks otherwise, I don't care, because supporting those values, if you can call them that, is far more insulting to those that are trampled by them than me voicing my opinion could ever be.

Edited by Lilaina
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1 hour ago, ClawzTheMeow said:

Damn all i wanted was people speaking about Internet Neutrality and now we're deep in Politics.
Everything just ends up in either Boobs or Politics looool

I just posted a meme first but then you brought up Obama. xD

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37 minutes ago, Lilaina said:

I just posted a meme first but then you brought up Obama. xD

Indeed hahahhaha

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