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valaquenta

A sum-up of all that happened yesterday

58 posts in this topic
4 hours ago, valaquenta said:

I really think you're all overexaggerating how bad this is.

On a personal level, I'm not.

I was permanently banned from Elysium by Hudson during the LGN fallout. I couldn't play there even if I agreed with the decision and decided to. All my testing and CM work was done for Crestfall, not for Elysium.

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Elicas said:

On a personal level, I'm not.

I was permanently banned from Elysium by Hudson during the LGN fallout. I couldn't play there even if I agreed with the decision and decided to. All my testing and CM work was done for Crestfall, not for Elysium.

Oh...well I didn't know that tbh. What did you do to get banned though?

Since it's a merge case, they're very likely to make an exception and unban you. I mean, if they can unban Alexensual, I don't see why they wouldn't do it for you...then again, maybe you wouldn't want to play there even if you could if I understood you well.

Edited by valaquenta
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15 minutes ago, valaquenta said:

Oh...well I didn't know that tbh. What did you do to get banned though?

Since it's a merge case, they're very likely to make an exception and unban you. I mean, if they can unban Alexensual, I don't see why they wouldn't do it for you...then again, maybe you wouldn't want to play there even if you could if I understood you well.

I'm not sure exactly. It was related to the the argument between Theloras and Killerduki and Imbaslap. I have no idea what I typed as the messages were deleted, but I made a grand total of 3 posts presenting Paladin stats/research in the same way I do here and was permabanned for it. The note states

"Note for member

Creating troll accounts to target forum members indicates that you lack the maturity to continue posting here.

"

If presenting factual evidence constitutes trolling Elysiums playerbase, than no, it isn't a community I have any desire to be part of. It isn't something people should advocate for either, changing or invalidating the rules for one person sets a dangerous precedent, even though said precedent has already been set with Alex.

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49 minutes ago, Elicas said:

I'm not sure exactly. It was related to the the argument between Theloras and Killerduki and Imbaslap. I have no idea what I typed as the messages were deleted, but I made a grand total of 3 posts presenting Paladin stats/research in the same way I do here and was permabanned for it. The note states

"Note for member

Creating troll accounts to target forum members indicates that you lack the maturity to continue posting here.

"

If presenting factual evidence constitutes trolling Elysiums playerbase, than no, it isn't a community I have any desire to be part of. It isn't something people should advocate for either, changing or invalidating the rules for one person sets a dangerous precedent, even though said precedent has already been set with Alex.

Well presenting facts against Theloras and duki are not accepted... sad realy. 

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It's strange that they said they anticipated a hostile reaction and then when they get exactly that they're butthurt about the community being butthurt and lock the thread.  As someone mentioned in the other thread they also didn't learn from the LGN fiasco and didn't have prepared, definitive answers to the obvious concerns.  There was a lot of "I (don't) think...." "I haven't heard...".  If Asura himself came and gave straight answers instead of Darkrasp having to guess it probably would have gone a long way to assuring the community, but he doesn't seem to care and I think that's reflected in people's reactions.  If he doesn't care now what's to say he or Crogge or anyone else will fight to keep Crestfall's characteristics like commitment to quality, strong anti-botting and gold selling, VPN bans, etc intact when Elysium inevitably tries to persuade or force changes?

I believe Asura is scaling back his involvement heavily, but I can only hope this ownership stuff is just for show to give some legal protection.  If not, then the people who are all sunshine and roses are the naive ones.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Elicas said:

Finding it amusing that Darks last post in locking the main thread about this is essentially to tell the core of the community here to go fuck themselves.

The amusing part is this coming right after the thread wherein we shared our frustration regarding Elysium's destructive forum moderation habits.

Also, isn't it all kind of pointless?  Close one thread, the rage just moves to another.  Might as well just close the forums early if that's the game.  Then the potato is their (Elysium's) problem.  Would you like that, Darkrasp?  That what you're longing for?  I hope not!  You're mad that we're mad.  We get that.  You've indicated you get why we're mad, so just let it go, man.  There's no answer here.

Edited by cybaster
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7 hours ago, Elicas said:

I haven't demanded a thing.

I'm entitled to the devs respect for the amount of work I put into the project. Even having been inactive and on holiday recently, I still account for just over 40% of all bug reports on the internal Mantis tracker. It's likely by the time the server is in a position to release my contribution will probably still be some 5-10% of everything reported/fixed. In their personal conversations with me, Dark and Asura continue to treat me with respect. As far as I'm concerned, they have and continue to treat me with everything I'm entitled to.

what would you reasonably expect to have been your preferred solution to this problem? people say "fuck darkrasp" for allegedly undermining the desires and expectations of the people here, yet none of them offer any realistic solution to keep the project functioning. would you have preferred for the project to entirely shut down and see all your work go to waste? you've already had enough faith to stick with this practically vaporware project of false hopes and promises for year(s?) at this point, yet somehow this event (which is overall a positive) is what breaks the camels back?

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Well spoken, Wyke.  It really is all about trust.  As the old saying goes:

once bitten, twice shy.

We were bitten, Crestfall staff.  We're twice shy about it.  That's how we're supposed to feel.  We're not wrong to think this way.

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, cybaster said:

Well spoken, Wyke.  It really is all about trust.  As the old saying goes:

once bitten, twice shy.

We were bitten, Crestfall staff.  We're twice shy about it.  That's how we're supposed to feel.  We're not wrong to think this way.

People keep saying, no one here owes anyone anything........................................ What mental problem is this ???

What if you are going to take a break and never come back and a staff member responded to you meanwhile and you are not responding back, how rude would that be ?

inbefore "but i would never do that"

 

WHO CARES ABOUT YOU ? dont take this personally, i mean this to anyone really. Why do people here cry.... I dont understand. Have they promised you anything ? Keep in mind its hobby project!!!!!!!!!! Anything can happen the next day, if u dont keep this in mind, YOULL FORGET THEN COMPLAIN LIKE NOW, I mean even the Staff cant know what will happen tommorow, you think they lied to you ? Omg...

Edited by Brikot
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Just now, Brikot said:

People keep saying, no one here owes anyone anything........................................ What mental problem is this ???

I don't have to be owed something to have concerns regarding a decision someone makes that affects me.  Don't bundle me up with that bullshit.

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Conversation, discussion and respect all cost nothing, thats all people are complaining about

 

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5 hours ago, SweN said:

To y'all who are complaining and bitching right now ... See you in open beta ! 

No, you won't.

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On 25.08.2017 at 0:14 PM, valaquenta said:

but try to put yourselves in Asura's and Darkrasp's position: Asura's American and just witnessed what happened to Felmyst, Darkrasp and him both have to deal with a lot of shit,

Did Asura forget he was a US citizen when they said "C&D letters go straight into waste bin" etc. on the website?

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On 8/25/2017 at 9:15 AM, Mecher said:

except elysium staff dont have ownership of the crestfall server core, did you even read the post

why would crestfall continue to operate so far outside of the conditions proposed in the agreement they finalized before the merge? why wouldnt they just say fuck it and shut it down if elysium were undermining the original agreement that badly?

kronos/twinstar wasn't on the radar for anyone because their server core is absolute dogshit and they havent had proper scripting in ever, not to mention the entire point of their twinstar system is to make money off the backs of the pserver community, because they are actually a business first and foremost. they dont even have proper ddos protection and the server goes down the minute 1 salty bulgarian with a LOIC decides to blast it and their server IP.

youre quick to completely disregard elysium as a server because their forums arent a regulated hugbox like here and because of the whole vitaly/alex garbage that transpired months ago and has since been addressed, yet you dont even have faith in the devs of this project to set terms and stick to them in regards to the merge?

the fact that this entire forum community sees elysium as this big bad power figure that bullies everyone and anyone into submission is fucking laughable

Mecher, you call Kronos' core dogshit but I saw it with my own two eyes that their scripts were impressive. I don't idolize them or anything, since I see that the gold-selling is rampant now, however, from the point when I started playing there up until the nost migration and the Ddos that followed, until that point that server did not offer anything more than vanity items in the shop, decent scripting, good community and rarely any bugs.

I'll sum up the problems with Elysium right here to make it more clear:
- Inability or unwillingness to regulate gold sellers (corruption indicator #1 - happened on Pandashan, Kronos, I can name more)
- Deleting unpopular opinions on forums - not exactly free speech - and before you say it was trash talking or hate speech, nope I've seen it, it was reasonable.
- Just because they say Vitality is no longer there or the situation is different doesn't make it true. Of course I don't know for sure but I will not be naive and blindly trust them. Remember, they say that everything is fine in North Korea and the people are happy.
- Previous point, if Vitality (server owner and Admin profited from gold sellers and currently, gold selling is everywhere, unregulated...)
- finally minor point, the players want to transfer to our PTE server as lvl 60s. Well that would be totally unfair for the people who start fresh on Crestfall, wouldn't it? I mean I'm lvl 1 I finally got my server and then hey look at that, some lvl 60 has already cornered the AH with some materials or something, and god forbid they can bring gear or money too, that would ruin the economy even more.

I don't hate Elysium and if you look at these points above you will see that I don't have a problem with the people. I have issues with their management.
On a final note, I didn't say that they already violated the agreement. I said they CAN at any time.
You know what happened to WoW? The guys who originally made the Warcraft series worked on WoW Vanilla. Then Activision bought out Blizzard-Vivendi and pretty soon the old crew was booted from the company before they even launched TBC. Since then WoW has gone into a steady decline, with every expansion and now it's not even multiplayer anymore - MMO anyone? just sit in the garrison and play farmville all day.

I want Elysium to get their shit together, stick to the agreement and get rid of gold-sellers that is all.

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See this thread, https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/52889-legacy-crusade-the-journey-doesnt-end-here/  anyone see anything that shows crestfall as a separate entity?  The fact is before anything to do with crestfall being complete the talk of mergers and progression from elysium realms already over-shadows and stomps all over this project.  I am not saying this is fact, but the elysium fanbase already sees this as their future, who are the entitled fucks now?

 

I know my opinion wont be popular,  but seriously this is exactly why I made my opinions about this decision public.  The crestfall staff will be walked all over, their work prostituted all to appease a bunch of hype following kids who have no sense or understanding of the thousands of hours of work that has been gifted to them.

 

What happened to the claims that no transfers would happen?  Already he elysium community are expecting it, and we all know how elysium management deal with player demands.

 

The fact is any promises made in private, are not being made public.  

 

My question is, to @darkrasp @crogge @asura , what happened to ownership, the fact is the community owns a project, as the ownership WILL buckle to community demand.  

 

You can say anything to us now, the fact is you can not promise Crestfall will be a unique entity without transfers, as the elysium community are ALREADY expecting and demanding it.

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1 hour ago, Smirre said:

It doesn't matter, this decision was the only way to keep this project running, if you don't like it, then leave. 

Except it does. The people who quit on the project are the community managers of this world, because they see no future in the CF community there. It's not Crestfall after all. Neither Elicas nor I have anything against CF, after all, we put our hearts and souls into it, this isn't bitter resentment, it's a factual assessment from those that understand what the project had to offer (new PvE realm, anyone?) and now feel obligated to give a damning assessment of how things currently stand, because we feel we're actually qualified to do so.

The fact that Wyke, one of the very few calm, neutral and factual-based observers in Pservers - he's played extensively on all of the major and minor ones - won't touch the project with a 10' barge pole - reaffirms all the negative and depressed sentiment here. It saddens me to see the increasing amount of rearranging of deckchairs on this Titanic by people who should know better at this stage.

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29 minutes ago, Outstanding said:

Except it does. The people who quit on the project are the community managers of this world, because they see no future in the CF community there. It's not Crestfall after all. Neither Elicas nor I have anything against CF, after all, we put our hearts and souls into it, this isn't bitter resentment, it's a factual assessment from those that understand what the project had to offer (new PvE realm, anyone?) and now feel obligated to give a damning assessment of how things currently stand, because we feel we're actually qualified to do so.

The fact that Wyke, one of the very few calm, neutral and factual-based observers in Pservers - he's played extensively on all of the major and minor ones - won't touch the project with a 10' barge pole - reaffirms all the negative and depressed sentiment here. It saddens me to see the increasing amount of rearranging of deckchairs on this Titanic by people who should know better at this stage.

May I ask what other solutions you thought about to save the project then? I mean, I can't say that there's nothing wrong with Elysium, but between them and the shutdown of crestfall, it's a no-brainer, isn't it?

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Posted (edited)

52 minutes ago, Outstanding said:

The fact that Wyke, one of the very few calm, neutral and factual-based observers in Pservers

Really...? I wonder when the perception of Wyke changed for so many people. I and many others ex-Rebirth players always saw him as this super biased GM of rebirth who loved to shit on other servers (Mainly nost) and just ignored all the flaws that rebirth, a subpar server had. And as @valaquenta said, @Outstanding with the whole  gummy fiasco and asura leavling what other choice do they have?

Edited by Cornholi
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Posted (edited)

22 minutes ago, Smirre said:

Actually it does not, and i don't think that this server needs people like you and elicas anyways, you're just causing negative stigma here right now and that if something is hurting the project, leave, good riddance.

Elicas and outstanding have both been a huge help for the project though, and they've been around for a long time: I'm not a big fan of the way they're reacting to this, it sounds to me like they still don't even try to understand that there was literally no choice, but it doesn't mean that they should just be told to shut up or to leave this project.

Edited by valaquenta
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9 hours ago, Cornholi said:

Really...? I wonder when the perception of Wyke changed for so many people. I and many others ex-Rebirth players always saw him as this super biased GM of rebirth who loved to shit on other servers (Mainly nost) and just ignored all the flaws that rebirth, a subpar server had. And as @valaquenta said, @Outstanding with the whole  gummy fiasco and asura leavling what other choice do they have?

You are welcome to that perception, but I shit on what is shit, including rebirth when I worked there just I did that behind closed doors directly to muggle and andkem and not in public to the community as that would  be unprofessional.

 

I criticized Nost for its scripting initially, and the lack of player caps, and indeed on the issues over the closure when there was no need.  I did an in depth review on Kronos that complained about the changes to core mechanics like LoS and the over-all difficulty.  I complained about Magic-WoW and the failure to wipe when transferring from beta to live.  I complained about Valkyrie becuase, well it was valkyrie, I shit on feenix because everything about it was pretty shit.  I shit on Scriptcraft too.

 

The thing is on EVERY realm I play I try to help while I am there.  I report bugs, I offer suggestions and I show valid concerns to the admins in the hope they listen and consider my opinion.

 

Being vocal and opinionated does not make you popular, it also doesnt make you right.  I accept that and can live with it :D

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10 minutes ago, valaquenta said:

Elicas and outstanding have both been a huge help for the project though, and they've been around for a long time: I'm not a big fan of the way they're reacting to this, it sounds to me like they still don't even try to understand that there was literally no choice, but it doesn't mean that they should just be told to shut up or to leave this project.

You answer "there was no other choice" every time you reply to these "community concerns", but I strongly feel there were dozens of other possible choices.

 

The first that comes to mind is "open-sourcing it", so that someone else could continue with it (Elysium too...in the exact same way it's happening now).

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Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, mrmr said:

You answer "there was no other choice" every time you reply to these "community concerns", but I strongly feel there were dozens of other possible choices.

 

The first that comes to mind is "open-sourcing it", so that someone else could continue with it (Elysium too...in the exact same way it's happening now).

If open-sourcing is the best solution from your point of view, then I'm glad they merged with Elysium to be completely honest with you...what I've always wanted to see at the end of the day is the crestfall staff releasing this product themselves, not Elysium, twinstar and so on...I'll say it again: as long as the philosophy is the same and that the crestfall is the ONLY one touching the core, then I'm good.

If the day comes when both of these features are gone...then it will be a completely different story. However, I REALLY doubt this will happen, since the CF staff would then leave the Elysium project.

Edited by valaquenta
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