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cybaster

Elysium forum mods are making a real mess of the Welcome Crestfall thread.

29 posts in this topic

They're going through it and deleting things in an appallingly haphazard manner.  My post about this being an opportunity for Elysium to prove to the people who left it for Crestfall that Elysium has turned over a new leaf is already gone.  What revisionist history bullshit is this?  How am I supposed to think this merger is going to work if their staff is willing to delete our concerns?

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What did you think was going to happen? It's Elysium.

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Let's see if the second post sticks.  It's a little less specific, but everybody knows all of this ancient history anyway, so I don't really need to namedrop individuals who precipitated the exodus to get my point across.  Maybe I just got caught up in a damage control habit.

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What do you expect from Stalin ? 

 

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Posted (edited)

Removing posts that are even slightly negative isn't very confidence inspiring, it's the sort of stuff Warmane and Feenix would do, I really want Elysium to improve and get past behaviour like this. That said, it might've just been a one off.

Edited by Pvt_8Ball
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Elysium is basically the Warmane of vanilla, with Feenix-like thought control.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, cybaster said:

Let's see if the second post sticks.  It's a little less specific, but everybody knows all of this ancient history anyway, so I don't really need to namedrop individuals who precipitated the exodus to get my point across.  Maybe I just got caught up in a damage control habit.

NOPE.  It's gone.   Welcome, Crestfall!  Now shut up and cease to be yourselves, and make no mention of the before-times.  Your concerns are not valid because they reference REDACTED.

 

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Posts of this kind are not allowed.

 

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Josipbroz would like you to remind us all that we do not matter/do not exist in numbers quantifiable enough to deserve consideration.

 

@Crogge.  Can you swing those brass balls of yours in their direction, or is this shit really our future?

At the bare minimum, we're going to need our own forum on a permanent basis so we can actually talk freely.

Edited by cybaster
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46 minutes ago, cybaster said:

NOPE.  It's gone.   Welcome, Crestfall!  Now shut up and cease to be yourselves, and make no mention of the before-times.  Your concerns are not valid because they reference REDACTED.

 

46769e759f.jpg

Posts of this kind are not allowed.

 

ed11cc8b65.jpg

Josipbroz would like you to remind us all that we do not matter/do not exist in numbers quantifiable enough to deserve consideration.

 

@Crogge.  Can you swing those brass balls of yours in their direction, or is this shit really our future?

At the bare minimum, we're going to need our own forum on a permanent basis so we can actually talk freely.

Just ignore Elysium forums for now, let things settle. It'll be alright.

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Posted (edited)

46 minutes ago, Kelila said:

Just ignore Elysium forums for now, let things settle. It'll be alright.

All they had to so was say "We understand, we'll do our best."  This reins of this project are being handed to an administration who has an official policy of enforcing order by silencing dissent.

Yes, that all sounds comically dramatic when you consider the low-stakes game we're all playing, but it is an accurate assessment of what they're apparently still doing.  You've got Darkrasp over here telling us that things are better, so I go put my toe in the water, which gets immediately boiled.  Why would I think things will be alright?

It isn't like that pedant Josip exists in a vacuum.  He's their literal community manager and his message to me was essentially "oh, you have doubts? then eat shit".  What's life on that server going to be like when the fury over the VPN and the transfer ban comes to a head?  That's going to be an item of conflict, no doubt about it.

Edit:  HAHAHAHA.  There's so many deleted posts in that thread I watched it lose page count even as the conversation went on.

Edited by cybaster
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@cybaster

It seems to me, that you have a history of your own on Elysium, so i'm not sure if there is any bad blood between you and some members of the staff. Also your post, even in its toned down version is still quite demanding and provocative ... But still it is no good sign, that they delete your post instead of defusing it with arguments, this makes me concerned too.

 

Greetings

 

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Whatever guys, if you are planning on playing on CF only, dont bother with Elysiums section of their forum, just stay at the CF section... just make sure u are aware of the rules, also their rules on discord.

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3 hours ago, JCarrill0 said:

It was removed because the community manager doesn't want to interact with the community.  For a specific reason.  I think his initial impression of this whole thing was set well before I made any of my posts.

The thing I feel like we have to understand about Elysium now is that there is a clear taboo when it comes to mentioning corruption.  They straight up don't want to talk about it, and they don't want it talked about.  It's hard to tell if that's evidence of foul-play going on still, because they have good reason to be tired of talking: during the "fall" of Elysium there were five lies spoken at their expense for every ugly truth.  That cultured an attitude where dialogue regarding the "before-times" is undesirable because it was just as difficult for the staff of Elysium to work out what was true and what wasn't as it was for any of us.

Moreover, acknowledging things like the audio leak and other direct statements from Elysium staff indicative of corruption indirectly justify what we can safely assume are an astronomical number of posts on the subject, all of which were deleted under this policy; most of which were probably just created out of malice, but many we can also assume were like mine: motivated out of a completely rational fear.  So their community management team is basically a damage control team first and an outreach program second.

Framing it in this context, I almost feel bad for giving Josip flak.  Not quite, though.  All he had to say was "we'll do our best" and that would have satisfied me.  Instead, he did the old damage control thing, because doing your best would imply there's work to be done, which would imply things weren't wonderful in the before-times. 

In short, it's bullshit, and undesirable, but it doesn't tell us anything about the well-being of Crestfall as a server, which some smart folks here have already pointed out with far fewer words (basically everyone in the thread).  So I'm with you guys on that point.

 

It does tell us we can't really interact with the Elysium team with the openness and freedom of thinking we're accustomed to here.  That's unsettling.  I love the "fuck you crestfall" and then crestfall says "no fuck YOU" dynamic we've had going on here.  So the question becomes fixed in the future, as opposed to Elysium's shitty past:  If things get bad, how do we talk to them about it?  It doesn't look like we can.  We're dependent on what is essentially a development team to fight for our concerns.

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It's one of the many good parts of this community now lost for good.

You are at the mercy of Elysiums forum mods, under Elysiums forum rules. Just one of those 'minor' things the admins here have surrendered.

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I've seen this before on Pandashan and heard of it on Warmane. When server-staff engage in this kind of damage control there is usually corruption involved.
This silencing is essentially what the mafia does. The other reason is that they are also inept at PR. Like Cybaster points out, all they had to do was say a simple line of "we will do our best" and it would all be fine.
However, as long as they stick their noses out of Crestfall if and when it launches, then all this would be fine.

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Posted (edited)

what are the elysium mods supposed to say in response to such a blatantly inflammatory post such as "USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE YOU GUYS ARENT A BUNCH OF MONGOLOIDS ANYMORE"

id fucking delete it too because all it's going to do is stir up shit that you'll just use as a means to justify feeling superior over your soon to be dead and buried hovel here. do you expect someone to take the time to write a checklist of all the things that they've changed about their staff in the last however many months since all that drama happened to appease you self-entitled circlejerking autists?

how do none of you people realize that if crestfall had released under it's own banner that people from Elysium would make up majority of the population anyway? did you think crestfall was just going to magic 5-6k people out of thin air when it'd probably see a finalized release around the time that Elysium was finishing up its progression?

Edited by Mecher
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>people on this forum complaining that elysium deletes dissenting opinions when there is a literal reputation and upvoting feature embedded here

the irony

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Mecher said:

what are the elysium mods supposed to say in response to such a blatantly inflammatory post such as "USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE YOU GUYS ARENT A BUNCH OF MONGOLOIDS ANYMORE"

id fucking delete it too because all it's going to do is stir up shit that you'll just use as a means to justify feeling superior over your soon to be dead and buried hovel here. do you expect someone to take the time to write a checklist of all the things that they've changed about their staff in the last however many months since all that drama happened to appease you self-entitled circlejerking autists?

how do none of you people realize that if crestfall had released under it's own banner that people from Elysium would make up majority of the population anyway? did you think crestfall was just going to magic 5-6k people out of thin air when it'd probably see a finalized release around the time that Elysium was finishing up its progression?

 

1 hour ago, Mecher said:

>people on this forum complaining that elysium deletes dissenting opinions when there is a literal reputation and upvoting feature embedded here

the irony

Keep cool, man. First you critizise someone for writing "inflammatory" texts while the very same post of you seems to be the very same thing you're ciritzising (oh i hate that word in english, never sure i write it correctly). You embarrass yourself :(.

And please explain to me how the deletion of posts is in any way comparable with a reputation system? (That is of course, if one doesn't assume that every reputation given is artificially constructed by bots or whatnot - if one has this attitude he already lost trust in anything that builds up a community)

As for the concern, that the majority of Crestfall-players would be former Elysium-players anyway, thats a legit point - I see it the following: Of course there would have been many ppl that would swap over in time, but this step would have probably taken "some" time that allowed for "some" adaption - i don't want to overemphasize it though. Also the question of a VPN-block being intact is a major thing that under the current circumstances is pretty unclear (Elysium will have to tell all their chinese players, that they are not allowed to play on Crestfall - it is one thing to tell a certain group of people to stay out from the beginning while it is a completely other thing to tell already involved people that they are not welcomed on the communities recent and newest development - this could be a major concern and i don't know if Elysium will uphold the VPN-block for the Crestfall realm under that circumstances.)

-> But still, as it was said by some people before me, and as you also indicated, the server-start of a popular project is always a major stress-test for the previously build up community and its values. The 're are positive and negative examples for this (funny enough i see Kronos as a positive example here in contrast to Nostalrius - but then again Nostalrius had many more ppl that played upon it in the beginning). Under Elysium this ideal of a community is less likely to outlast than it was (even) before and the dissolution of our forum and integration in the elysium one seems like some kind of gravestone to this community even though it could be otherwise (This forum seems to be the very core structure of the community, and i don't talk about the mechanics given to us but the organic growing that is reflected in all the posts, bonds, the reputation system(!) aso - as Outstanding said in the according, latest Update-Topic: It takes a lot of time to build something special and only moments to tear it down ... or something in that manner^^).

 

Greetings

 

 

Edited by Polyphem
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9 hours ago, Mecher said:

how do none of you people realize that if crestfall had released under it's own banner that people from Elysium would make up majority of the population anyway? did you think crestfall was just going to magic 5-6k people out of thin air when it'd probably see a finalized release around the time that Elysium was finishing up its progression?

What is "people who are rectally chapped over the hypothetical impending death of Elysium due to no news of an Elysium PTE", Alex?!

Seriously, though.  What would you have me say?  I look at moving back in with Elysium as being asked to move back in with an abusive spouse.  I know what my problems were with the "old" Elysium.  I've got the scars to prove it.  Am I better off as a person if I just shrug my shoulders, say nothing, and walk?

Maybe.  That's not off the table by any means.  Still, answer my question: what am I supposed to say to them?

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4 minutes ago, cybaster said:

What is "people who are rectally chapped over the hypothetical impending death of Elysium due to no news of an Elysium PTE", Alex?!

Seriously, though.  What would you have me say?  I look at moving back in with Elysium as being asked to move back in with an abusive spouse.  I know what my problems were with the "old" Elysium.  I've got the scars to prove it.  Am I better off as a person if I just shrug my shoulders, say nothing, and walk?

Maybe.  That's not off the table by any means.  Still, answer my question: what am I supposed to say to them?

i dont even play on elysium, i play on dead anathema/ex-nost server so the death of their project doesnt mean anything to me. it'll have exhausted all content by the time this releases, anyway, and people will naturally want to go somewhere

you say nothing and just play the game, what kind of question is that even? you'd literally be playing with the same people had crestfall seen its own release. why do you feel the need to avatar it up on the forums over there and issue them a response no one wants or is entitled to?

why do you operate as if the entire community of people that play on elysium is some sort of weird hivemind that is specifically out to get YOU

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Posted (edited)

Let's break this down item by item:

10 minutes ago, Mecher said:

i dont even play on elysium, i play on dead anathema/ex-nost server so the death of their project doesnt mean anything to me. it'll have exhausted all content by the time this releases, anyway, and people will naturally want to go somewhere

Okay, but you got the joke, I take it.  Good enough for me.

10 minutes ago, Mecher said:

you say nothing and just play the game, what kind of question is that even? you'd literally be playing with the same people had crestfall seen its own release. why do you feel the need to avatar it up on the forums over there and issue them a response no one wants or is entitled to?

Firstly, the concern here is if that we have problems with how things go over there, we'll have no way of talking about them.  This concern is immediately valid.  It has proved relevant already.  Dozens of other, less accusatory posts were nuked (and are still being nuked) alongside mine.  That's what they do over there now.  They kill any talk they don't care to have, and it doesn't matter if it's communication that should occur or not.  If you don't have a problem with that, you suck.

Secondly, your statement "literally be playing with the same people crestfall seen its own release." is both demonstrably false and inconsistent with the first sentence of your reply to me.  You literally just said that by the time this releases the other server will be exhausted and people will want to go somewhere.  Anyway, a huge chunk of this community has chosen to walk, and not to talk.  So much for playing with Crestfall's community, huh?

10 minutes ago, Mecher said:

why do you operate as if the entire community of people that play on elysium is some sort of weird hivemind that is specifically out to get YOU

Every grievance I've aired so far was specifically directed at Elysium's administration.  I built a healthy guild of 90 or so active players in the early days of Elysium, so by no means do I consider its player community unworkable.  Far from it, really.

Edited by cybaster
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9 minutes ago, cybaster said:

Let's break this down item by item:

Okay, but you got the joke, I take it.  Good enough for me.

Firstly, the concern here is if that we have problems with how things go over there, we'll have no way of talking about them.  This concern is immediately valid.  It has proved relevant already.  Dozens of other, less accusatory posts were nuked (and are still being nuked) alongside mine.  That's what they do over there now.  They kill any talk they don't care to have, and it doesn't matter if it's communication that should occur or not.  If you don't have a problem with that, you suck.

Secondly, your statement "literally be playing with the same people crestfall seen its own release." is both demonstrably false and inconsistent with the first sentence of your reply to me.  You literally just said that by the time this releases the other server will be exhausted and people will want to go somewhere.  Anyway, a huge chunk of this community has chosen to walk, and not to talk.  So much for playing with Crestfall's community, huh?

Every grievance I've aired so far was specifically directed at Elysium's administration.  I built a healthy guild of 90 or so active players in the early days of Elysium, so by no means do I consider its player community unworkable.  Far from it, really.

discussion on that forum happens, just because you are currently choosing to view the forum through the lens of a specific thread full to the brim of shitposting and are getting mad when you are trying to have a "intelligent civilized discussion about your grievances" amidst it which could be easily misconstrued as purposely inflammatory posts, doesnt mean that that kind of discussion doesnt happen. the exact same thing happens here with devs/mods deleting posts they believe to be purposely antagonistic and even going so far as to shut down threads the moment things appear to get heated and out of hand. how is that any different? if a bunch of elysium players just barged into this forum and started making self-fellating and condescending posts that dug up needless drama that transpired in and hasn't been an issue since feb/march, they'd be swiftly removed as well

how is that statement demonstrably false and inconsistent? are you that out of touch with the pserver community? people want somewhere to move to when their server is nearing the end of its lifespan. crestfall would have released, merge, or independently, around the same time elysiums server progression was coming to a close, ergo all of them would come to crestfalls server. the decision to walk is ultimately their decision, it isn't crestfalls fault those players have decided to flake

and like i said, the administration isn't even bad, you're just choosing to look at it in a blatantly biased bubble.

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All right, I'll bite.  Point me to a conversation on the Elysium forum where someone with my concern had a successful conversation on the topic of ... Wait a minute.

5 minutes ago, Mecher said:

how is that statement demonstrably false and inconsistent?

Nevermind.  You are not smart enough to talk with me.

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