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cybaster

Are Crestfall servers going to have their own GM staff?

The VPN ban will only slow em' down.  It's not a perfect defense.

It is common knowledge that Elysium's enforcement regarding the RMT scourge is, to put it politely and to temporarily disregard conspiracy theories, simply inadequate.  It is common enough to buy gold and get away with it.  (On the other hand, talking about this is taboo, and threads on the matter last hours at best, although they surface continually.)

How will Crestfall be any better off, if they're sharing the same GM team?

 

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1 hour ago, cybaster said:

The VPN ban will only slow em' down.  It's not a perfect defense.

It is common knowledge that Elysium's enforcement regarding the RMT scourge is, to put it politely and to temporarily disregard conspiracy theories, simply inadequate.  It is common enough to buy gold and get away with it.  (On the other hand, talking about this is taboo, and threads on the matter last hours at best, although they surface continually.)

How will Crestfall be any better off, if they're sharing the same GM team?

 

If they bann vpn and ip what can the sellers do? 

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Pay to set up another VPN?  There isn't a magical line of code that intelligently looks at all incoming connections and knows what is and isn't a VPN, specifically when the proxy networks they're using are configured to mimic normal connections.  The gold sellers are going to react to this significant inconvenience, you can be sure.  It'll damage their profits, it'll slow them down, but it is not an impervious wall of protection. 

In short, there's no way it'll work on its own.  In tandem with strong and observant enforcement and an ever expanding blacklist, it can be effective.  This had never concerned me before because I had always assumed Crestfall would do the Crestfall thing and delay release an extra sixth months or whatever's needed to assemble a team of suitable meganerds who actually want to hunt gold sellers the couple hours a day it would take to do so effectively.

But Elysium doesn't do that.  They just don't.  I couldn't tell you if it's a lack of talent, a lack of interest, an under the table deal, or any combination of the three.  It's just how things are over there, and there's no reason to think things will change.

Edited by cybaster
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I get the impression that you think the state of gold sellers in the Elysium Project is due to their lack of trying or incompetence, now, I am not pretending to know anymore than you on how elysium does or doesn't do things.

Now this is just my own opinion, so with that said it seems to me like some people think that CF is going to be a safe haven free of gold sellers and chinese players, I don't think that is going to be the case guys.

If CF turns out to be a popular server there will probably be chinese players playing here and there will most definitely be gold sellers here as well; Elysium, Warmane, hell even retail has them. My opinion is that CF won't be different, now that doesn't mean that the CF staff is not going to try, but sadly the only way to truly get rid of gold sellers is for every player to never buy gold.

Edited by Cornholi
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Best way to make the goldselling stop is not to buy the gold.

Unfortunately not everyone shares the same ideals.

Edited by Freshaccount
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On 18-9-2017 at 7:36 PM, Freshaccount said:

Best way to make the goldselling stop is not to buy the gold. Unfortunately not everyone shares the same ideals.

Unfortunately, it's not just a matter of (sticking to one's) ideals. It's also a matter of competition. In practice, people tend to compromise on or fully abandon their ideals when it means they otherwise have to suffer a competitive disadvantage. Moreover, like you said, not everyone shares those ideals in the first place. 

I believe that simply asking people to stop buying gold, or even just blacklisting VPN's (without strict follow-up enforcement), won't entirely solve the problem. Players might understand that in theory the collective outcome would be improved in the long-run if every individual were to cooperate to uphold the ideal of a pristine server economy. However, such cooperation is difficult to maintain because it's not directly in the best interest of the individual players. Similarly to the prisoner’s dilemma scenario, they are bound to realize that as long as the incentive to buy gold is present, there will always be those who choose to pursue individual logic and betray the ideal, in spite of the fact that they could have collectively gotten a better outcome if they cooperated.

Consequently, many casual players might choose to buy their gold instead of farming it in order to keep up with the competition. That's a choice they make given the choice that all players have, which is roughly what the Nash equilibrium describes. This process ever works in the advantage of gold-sellers, which is why they're prevalent on any significant MMO server, especially p-servers. 

The resulting inflation and pay 2 win nature of the in-game economy would be a dealbreaker for me, and surely for many others that consciously chose to wait for Crestfall for the past few years instead of choosing the way of instant gratification on the relatively broken Elysium servers that (don't) deal with exactly these kind of issues.  

Lastly, I agree with @cybasterthat more concrete steps need to be taken to reduce the gold-selling and gold-buying incentive, such as his example of not only a blacklist, but also active enforcement by a GM team with this ideal in mind. I'm sure that if the CF team were to inform us that they intend on making this a priority in their dealings with the Elysium team (as opposed to the currently witnessed apathetic approach of Elysium's GM staff), or that they intend on dealing with this themselves in some way, it would inspire more confidence in their new partnership/CF's new ownership going forward on the part of long-time followers of the project like myself.

Edited by DrNeanderthal
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We need Pottu.

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/55066-banning-of-guilds/?tab=comments#comment-441355

Quote

Dear players. We've repeatedly asked you to help us stop the criminal activities of exploiting, gold selling, botting and more. We are now taking extreme measures against repeat offenders. As of today, the guilds Twilight and Covenant have had all their members banned for repeated gold selling and botting violations, and their guild masters inactivity in combating this menace that ruins the World of Warcraft experience to us all.

We have reached out to these guild masters repeatedly but they have been unwilling to cooperate with us. Which is why we had to resort to this measure. Let me repeat: this has nothing to do with the origin country of any guild. But if you do not report the illegal activities of your guild members that you MUST have been aware of - then you will be banned as an accomplice.

We have for 10 months tried the path of minimum impact and believing the best out of our players. It has not worked. So now we have to resort to more aggressive measures in combating this menace that ruins the playing experience of us all.

And then the other GMs came at him as a mob, pulling him back, and comforting the community that Pottu won't be allowed to go all manhunter on them.

I think Pottu's goddamn right.  This is what Nostalrius would have done.  They aren't going far enough to discourage this behavior.  This shit is why RMT still rules Elysium, and why it's going to be the same way on Crestfall unless measures are taken.  We're all about to inherit Elysium's problems.

Edited by cybaster
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Agreed.

 

Back in the days, the best-ish guild of a certain not-so-obscure WotLK server tossed me an invite somehow.

They've had all the released content on farm, more or less, and generally represented, well, a recognizable part of the community.

And lo and behold, the first Naxx ever they take me in, I find myself forced to LoS exploit Razuvious. Because, hey, speedruns and all.

Needless to say, I didn't log on that character anymore, ever. Pity, too, she was the Realm First 450 Fisherman :'(

 

Even if there's no greed or personal gain involved it can be very hard to report somebody you've been casually chatting with but a moment ago, not to mention a whole guild. I wonder if some kind of a custom exploit check could be attached to bosses to discourage improper player behaviour (i.e., for example, "Boss skipped his core mechanic twice during the encounter -> kick raid from the instance").

Edited by n-ghost
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