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Darkrasp

Darkrasp's Update 8/8/2016

66 posts in this topic

@Mecher I'm going to ask, once, that you have a little more professional courtesy towards other forum members.  You can disagree with them, but the overtly hostile tone is not appreciated.  @Roadblock catty and condescending responses aren't going to help diffuse the situation.

 

That aside, there is a point to be made that PvE got easier while PvP did not.  However, once we release the gear we can't take it away.  I think a reasonable compromise here would be to upgrade the epic PvP gear at the time of the ZG release, rewarding those who spent the time to get to high rank, and release the 60 Blue PvP sets (which contain several BiS for several classes, and can be obtained with far less effort) in the AQ patch with the rest of the item updates.

Sounds like a good middle ground to me.

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13 minutes ago, Roadblock said:

No I get it, you want your pvp scene to dominate pve in the first 3 months then be dead the next 3.

Why shouldn't someone who is willing to dedicate the time to the smaller raid format (ZG) that is harder than MC/Ony not get the rewards from it?

I mean they're not even that much more powerful.

I am not seriously suggesting that as an argument btw.

first of all, no pvp gear will exist that will be pve viable for 8 months of the server life time (if theyre updated with zg), other than r14 weapons

i dont even know what youre referencing here as i never said that, also zg is not harder than MC or ony, it was literally designed for bottom tier shitters to finally get some gear to begin clearing raid content, and besides the point they are all easy to do

they arent, rank 13 sets are comparable to 1.12.1 tier 2 for majority of classes, which is what this server is releasing tier sets at

Edited by Mecher
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On 08/08/2016 at 9:25 PM, Darkrasp said:

Launch: Molten Core, Maraudon, Onyxia (no head)

One month in: Honor system with 58 gear, Kazzak, Azuregos

Two months in: Alterac Valley, Warsong Gulch, Onyxia Head

Three months in: Dire Maul

Four months in: Blackwing Lair, Arathi Basin

Six months in: Zul'Gurub, Darkmoon Faire (and associated collection items)

Eight months in: War Effort begins, Silithus questlines, Wind Stones, Green Dragons

Completion of War Effort: Item updates and Restoration, Dungeon 2 Set quests, Ahn'Qiraj Ruins, Ahn'Qiraj Temple

Regarding Dungeon Set 2;

Those were added (in retail patch 1.10 if I'm not mistaken) as means to provide reasonably good gear for players who didn't have time to dedicate 10h+ per week to PvP or raiding due to whatever reason.

The so-called tier 0.5 set is not in any way overpowered. Many dungeon blues from BRD, DM, Scholo, Strat and L+UBRS are better and are actually pre-raid BiS over t0.5.

In my view, this set appeals to more casual players, who wanted to explore the huge world and enjoy the long quest lines and lore, while being properly rewarded for doing that. Not overpowered in comparison to other, more easly obtainable BiS items, but still usuable.

As a player who don't immediatly accept all quests without reading the text, as someone who doesn't care only about BiS gear, as someone who is interested in project Crestfall, and as a lore lover, I wonder if it wouldn't be feasible to add Dungeon Set 2 quest chains earlier than that.

 

No server is true Blizzlike anyway. Regarding many things Crestfall is also off from original. Does it make sense to keep t0.5 locked until it is completely obsolete for the sake of being somewhat blizzlike progressive? Most people don't even care about this set whenever it gets released. But for those who do, what are the implications of releasing them earlier?

Cheers

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40 minutes ago, loeth said:

Regarding Dungeon Set 2;

Those were added (in retail patch 1.10 if I'm not mistaken) as means to provide reasonably good gear for players who didn't have time to dedicate 10h+ per week to PvP or raiding due to whatever reason.

The so-called tier 0.5 set is not in any way overpowered. Many dungeon blues from BRD, DM, Scholo, Strat and L+UBRS are better and are actually pre-raid BiS over t0.5.

In my view, this set appeals to more casual players, who wanted to explore the huge world and enjoy the long quest lines and lore, while being properly rewarded for doing that. Not overpowered in comparison to other, more easly obtainable BiS items, but still usuable.

As a player who don't immediatly accept all quests without reading the text, as someone who doesn't care only about BiS gear, as someone who is interested in project Crestfall, and as a lore lover, I wonder if it wouldn't be feasible to add Dungeon Set 2 quest chains earlier than that.

 

No server is true Blizzlike anyway. Regarding many things Crestfall is also off from original. Does it make sense to keep t0.5 locked until it is completely obsolete for the sake of being somewhat blizzlike progressive? Most people don't even care about this set whenever it gets released. But for those who do, what are the implications of releasing them earlier?

Cheers

Depends entirely on the set. Rogue 0.5 4 set bonus so good and so well itemised it usually beats out full T2, especially if the Proc rate isn't quite blizzlike (Feenix), even on Kronos where I believe the proc rate is accurate you still tend to get the very best Rogues on the server prioritising 4set 0.5 over 8 set T2. While that is only one class, melee DPS is so stacked nowadays that it isn't unusual to see ~6 rogues and ~6 warriors, with all the rogues running 4 x 0.5. That one 0.5 set invalidates most of the drops in BWL and ZG for Rogues, and severely skews how hard and how fast content can be taken down, when you are stacking ~6 people doing ~10-15% more dps than you would have for the equivalent raid tier gear.

While most of the other class sets aren't as well itemised and aren't as good, the sheer power creep available from that one set significantly reduces loot opportunities, DKP pools, and increased overall raid DPS by a not insignificant margin. You can't release everyone elses 0.5 and withhold just one classes, it isn't fair.

0.5 should be left out of the game until at least AQ40, since that at least means the first kills will be made without amped up Rogues.

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Here's the thing.  The PvP blue sets are OP for some classes, the Dungeon 2 sets are OP for some classes, the Epic PvP sets are OP for some classes, the T2 sets are OP for some classes.

We have to find a middle ground.  We can't say "we're going to nerf the Pally T2, and the Rogue D2, and the Warrior PvP, etc.".. I can't even imagine the witch hunt if we said we were going to nerf one class' Tier sets but not another's to offset some potential imbalance from a PvP set or a crafted item somewhere else.

Vanilla wasn't particularly well itemized, it wasn't particularly balanced, and the earlier you go, the more imbalanced it is.  That's why stat changes and item removals are such a touchpoint for controversy, and it's part of the reason I didn't want to do them at all.

In the end, we're going for something in the middle.  Some classes will have earlier access to their Pre-AQ Best In Slot gear than others.  Sorry.  That's going to happen no matter when we release content.  It's just something people are going to have to live with.

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5 minutes ago, Darkrasp said:

Some classes will have earlier access to their Pre-AQ Best In Slot gear than others.  Sorry.  That's going to happen no matter when we release content.  It's just something people are going to have to live with.

This is my point exactly. Vanilla was never properly balanced anyway. The D2 sets are mostly not OP but instead an AWESOME quest line for lore lovers or folks who can't be avaliable for raids too regularly.

Given a lot in many ways is modified from the original content anyway, where would be the the harm in releasing t0.5 earlier?

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20 minutes ago, Elicas said:

Depends entirely on the set. Rogue 0.5 4 set bonus so good and so well itemised it usually beats out full T2, especially if the Proc rate isn't quite blizzlike (Feenix), even on Kronos where I believe the proc rate is accurate you still tend to get the very best Rogues on the server prioritising 4set 0.5 over 8 set T2. While that is only one class, melee DPS is so stacked nowadays that it isn't unusual to see ~6 rogues and ~6 warriors, with all the rogues running 4 x 0.5. That one 0.5 set invalidates most of the drops in BWL and ZG for Rogues, and severely skews how hard and how fast content can be taken down, when you are stacking ~6 people doing ~10-15% more dps than you would have for the equivalent raid tier gear.

While most of the other class sets aren't as well itemised and aren't as good, the sheer power creep available from that one set significantly reduces loot opportunities, DKP pools, and increased overall raid DPS by a not insignificant margin. You can't release everyone elses 0.5 and withhold just one classes, it isn't fair.

0.5 should be left out of the game until at least AQ40, since that at least means the first kills will be made without amped up Rogues.

try combining 4pc T2 with 3pc stormshroud and a mugger's belt as seal fate daggers

its alot of energy procs, which can be dumped faster than SS spec and used for alot of backstabs and eviscerates, and you might actually think its more fun

 

also I ask that darkrasp release all the r12/13 gear at the same time, all the tier .5 quests at the same time, and all the tier 2 gear at the same time

Edited by Aquane
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The rogue T0,5 set is itemwise not much to cheer for, the energy proc is what makes all the difference especially when combining it with world buffs. During those conditions, that you are buffed with atleast onyxia buff and all pots it should beat the non pvp bis bwl set and the bwl bis set by a small margin and which can be seen in the RogueDPS reborn sheet. Granted I havn't checked this post the extra attacks rewrite but the proc in itself is very good if we're applying a blizzlike procrate of ~3% (if this is normalized like some servers do it is completely broken). Playstyle wise I very much would recommend you to try out both D2 and stormshroud like mentioned, not because they together are a great addition in comparison to all other options out there, but because they have a good synergy and can be very fun to play around with when PvPing. If I can make it into the beta I would very much like (read: if given permission as there surely are a lot more important things to test) to try out certain proc rates and report back their dps impact, alongside of course more traditional beta testing :)

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19 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

That aside, there is a point to be made that PvE got easier while PvP did not.  However, once we release the gear we can't take it away.  I think a reasonable compromise here would be to upgrade the epic PvP gear at the time of the ZG release, rewarding those who spent the time to get to high rank, and release the 60 Blue PvP sets (which contain several BiS for several classes, and can be obtained with far less effort) in the AQ patch with the rest of the item updates.

Sounds like a good middle ground to me.

Agreed! 1+ 

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4 month to farm a raid is not that much, will be hard to get the best Items in that short time.

 

Thanks for the great work and the update.

Edited by Rumpelholz
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On 8/8/2016 at 7:25 PM, Mecher said:

i think everyone recognized the sets were well beyond shit for majority of content and the update that came with naxx was way too late

there was a reason the sets were updated when they were on Nost

why would someone go r14 when the pre-update version of the 2 hand sword is worse than a 2 hander off the first raid boss in the entire game?

Actually, it was an accident but then they just decided to leave it because why would someone go r14 when the pre-update version of the 2 hand sword is worse than a 2 hander off the first raid boss in the entire game?

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Time line seems super abbreviated. Love the project and vanilla, but the pace seems way too fast. Hope you guys can find a nice balance! Good luck. 

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It's nice to see that you're increasing the difficulty of the raids, everyone finish MC for instance - so easily.

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@Darkrasp with VPN's being disabled will this affect things like WTFast - and if so, will there be anything set in place to allow connections from these services? I relied upon WTFast to get sub 300ms to Nostalrius as an Australian player.

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