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VeloxBanks

PVP Paladin. What do I need to know?

This thread might be a bit too much to ask and I'm sorry if it is. 

The deal is as follows:

I'm interested in playing a Paladin. I'm also interested in PVP. I also have absolutely no experience with both of those things. I've had some PVP encounters before but nothing too organized and I have absolutely no knowledge of the Paladins mechanics (at least nothing in depth). 

I basically need some help with gathering all the information to point me in the right direction. I'm mostly looking for a good PVP spec but now that I think about it a leveling spec would also be nice. Information about optimal PVP gear would also be nice but not a priority. I also heard some things about lots of weapon switching when playing a PVP paladin. If that is indeed a thing I would appreciate some more information about it (when do I need to do it and why).

Not sure if it helps but I guess it's worth pointing out that I have a fair bit of experience as a Rogue. I'd guess that being accustomed to a melee class helps, even though it probably doesn't mean much when I have no experience in PVP. 

Honestly, it feels like trying to get good at PVP in a game that's already 10 years old is a bit futile. So many people that are not only better than me but have been better than me for so many years... Do I even have a chance? No matter. I'm here to attempt not to succeed. If that makes sense. Does it make sense? Pretty sure it makes sense. 

Any help is greatly appreciated. 

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1v1 guide:

If it's a druid/shaman, use your Righteous Retreat macro (mistakelny called "bubble hearthing" by some) Alternatively you can just attempt to run away.

If not, hit the bastard with Judgement when you can. When you get low, stun him and heal yourself as much as you can.. Keep hitting him hard. When you get low again, cast Lay on Hands. When you get low for the 3rd time you have 2 options:

a) if you're fighting an OP class like a mage or warlock, or a rogue with bandages, pop bubble and hearth out.

b) If you're fighting a poor loser like a warrior, smash your head against the keyboard or any hard object you find nearby you stupid noob - he should be dead by the time you get to this phase. Then pop a bubble and heal yourself.

After the dirty orc is down, proceed to teabag him, use the most obnoxious emotes you know (/rofl is the most annoying one) and make sure he sees your perfect golden Arthas-wannabe hair. If you're a dwarf, well... dwarf paladins are kind of ridiculous, so it's enough of an embarassment to be beaten by one. 

Tip: as a paladin NEVER use a hearthstone to return to some place quicker - it's an obligatory tool to save yourself in times of real need.

Disclaimer: This guide is created solely on experiencing the plays of best vanilla paladin players. I've never played a paladin myself. This is based purely on observation.

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I hope you get good feedback on this. I'm only here because this reminds me of the old joke:

How many rogues does it take to kill a paladin?

Two

One to ambush him and one back at the inn

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Ok, so I have mostly done PvP as a holy paladin, here your most important macros are /Yawn and /no

If you get attacked by a melee class, quickly equip a shield and heal yourself while spamming emotes... If he does not stop after a while you just stun and run away, freedom yourself if he uses any slow. 

If you get attacked by a caster just run away, freedom / remove magic to get away faster. 

If you are getting attacked by loads of guys, just stun one and run away with your bubble...

If you are vs a warrior, remember you can out heal his dps if you are on equal gear, so by spamming flash of light and using judges on him, you can win the battle :)... eventually... 

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11 minutes ago, hussar said:

a) if you're fighting an OP class like a mage or warlock, or a rogue with bandages, pop bubble and hearth out.

Pretty accurate :D 

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As a paladin you have 2 bubbles and lay on hands combine that with Pursuit of Justice and freedom, no one will be able to fight you if you dont want to so you will never need to bubble/hs in your lvling phase. When you hit max lvl you will still be annoying as fuck, I myself never played any pvp as ret but I remember hating them more then any other class when I played on my shaman in vanilla.

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I actually just remembered something I probably should have asked in the begining... should I even try? Am I aiming too high with this? Not only have I never PVPed before but I'm also starting with (what seems to be) an inferior class. Is this just a bad idea through and through or is there a chance for it to work? 

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You have lower damage but more survivability as a Pally. Depends on how you see yourself playing I guess. I'd suggest watching some world PvP vids from vanilla of different classes to see what appears to you the most.

 

Above I linked a video of Jamaz, a PvP paladin I've always enjoyed watching. But note that he picked up engineering to have the grenades to have an additional stun.

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12 hours ago, hussar said:

1v1 guide:

If it's a druid/shaman, use your Righteous Retreat macro (mistakelny called "bubble hearthing" by some) Alternatively you can just attempt to run away.

If not, hit the bastard with Judgement when you can. When you get low, stun him and heal yourself as much as you can.. Keep hitting him hard. When you get low again, cast Lay on Hands. When you get low for the 3rd time you have 2 options:

a) if you're fighting an OP class like a mage or warlock, or a rogue with bandages, pop bubble and hearth out.

b) If you're fighting a poor loser like a warrior, smash your head against the keyboard or any hard object you find nearby you stupid noob - he should be dead by the time you get to this phase. Then pop a bubble and heal yourself.

After the dirty orc is down, proceed to teabag him, use the most obnoxious emotes you know (/rofl is the most annoying one) and make sure he sees your perfect golden Arthas-wannabe hair. If you're a dwarf, well... dwarf paladins are kind of ridiculous, so it's enough of an embarassment to be beaten by one. 

Tip: as a paladin NEVER use a hearthstone to return to some place quicker - it's an obligatory tool to save yourself in times of real need.

Disclaimer: This guide is created solely on experiencing the plays of best vanilla paladin players. I've never played a paladin myself. This is based purely on observation.

Ahahahaha, pure gold m8, pure gold!!! +1

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Holy paladins hit like wet noodles but holy shock gives you something you can hit people with at range (hunters/casters), and if you have a way to set it up on your keybinds, toggling between auras on the fly can be helpful too.  The only schools you don't get some protection against are arcane and nature, so you can sometimes just outlast a mage for example (try to make him sheep you and take the free heals, keeping yourself alive until he's oom and a sitting duck).  Everything with pallies is situational.  Shields are great against melee with devo aura or even ret aura (more against a rogue or a cat or a pet that's chasing you) but won't do a thing if you encounter a caster, so the two-hander is probably a better option there.  Pallies aren't really great at anything except staying alive, so trying to outlast your counterpart is often the best option you have.

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This video inspired me to roll a paladin back around 2006: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIiq8Qu8UAE (ZalPalaPvP 3)

I found it generally more interesting than the typical 2h reckbomb fests or the films of highly-geared deep ret players. The video shows a lot of ungeared solo combat against several (admittedly bad) players at once, but when you go 1v5 and win while using unimpressive gear, regardless of how bad the other players are, I find it entertaining. There are a few 1v1s against competent players as well, which are almost as amusing, but there are other vanilla paladin videos out there with better 1v1s.

The key takeaway I have for you is to take engineering. Iron grenades are immeasurably helpful when PvPing as a paladin, as the stun can give you enough time to clinch an extra holy light—and holy light heals for a lot in vanilla, no matter what spec you're playing—or to catch a runner. The shadow reflector gives you a brief reprieve from the classes that have given me the most trouble in my paladin career – warlocks and priests. The goblin rocket helmet gives you another "heal to full" chance and a much-needed gap closer.

A secondary takeaway is to heal early and heal often.

My final advice for you is to be prepared to be frustrated by how easily someone can just run away from you if they feel that they're starting to lose the advantage. That's my #1 pet peeve about vanilla paladin pvp.

 

Edited by Soulson
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If you want to PvP learn engineering and also get the 31 point Retribution talent Repentance as the additional stun is extremely useful even when you are supporting mainly. The problem when doing PvP is getting your heals through in the first place and against skilled players you need as much CC as you can get (every class has a way to interrupt you). So even as supporter (which is the primary role for paladins in organized PvP not matter what) I recommend 31 points in Retribution. Remember that your only spell school is holy. So a kick even locks your bubble.

Also stack as much stamina as you can and hotkey the engineering trinkets and grenades you use, your CC, Insignia and consumables. Practice a lot and stay calm. Learn about the key abilities other classes have and when they might use them.

And play defensively, never heal too late. For world PvP it is also fun to carry resistance gear with you. If you see a shadowpriest approaching for example switch to shadow resistance gear (use Outfitter or a similar addon). It's a lot of fun when you keep resisting most of the spells a caster throws at you. The fact that Shadowpriests are bound to one school of magic only makes this pretty easy. It is very situational but I was having a blast doing that. Be creative.

As casters are the biggest threat to you, always have reflectors with you and use your CC wisely.

 

As shamans were mentioned in particular:

  • Kite them away from their totems. If you fight stationary against a shaman you will most likely lose.
  • Use rank 1 Seal of Command. If they keep purging it they might run out of mana before you do.
  • Heal only when the shaman is not within Earth Shock range or when you have stunned the player.
  • If you don't have any CC off cooldown you can also try to fake cast a heal using Darthol's Rod of Transformation. It has the same animation Holy Light has.
  • Use your bubble if you are low on health to heal yourself especially against an orc that might resist your stuns.
  • Save up a gap closer like a stun, net or rocket boots for when they are low and try to flee in Ghost Wolf form.
Edited by fruitsalad
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Reck-bombing is a wack spec that only gets really good with Zin or better. Plus it relies on your bubble too much imo. 

Good pvpers will let their casters deal with you and let the melee just destroy everything around you. Only m*ng melee will attack you.

I tend to just ignore pally's in mid, cause even if they stun you you'll probably get away anyway then just eat up & regen before you get to the fight where it matters. 

You dont attack mounted enemies on your own, simple as that tbh.

as a deep ret you got another CC which is amazing. 

Still Holy beats them all.

Some things that make you a good Paladin, imo. Regardless of spec.

- You should prio supporting teammates over dealing damage, even if you are Reck or Ret. don't be that guy that gets lets his entire team die around him.

- master the art of bop'ping your teammates(usually your casters/healers).

ie; If your FC is about to die(and you cant safe him, bop him, they often dont suspect it and fail to click it, I saved plenty of flags that way or delayed enough for a repick to happen. Bopping a geared warlock pretty much turns them into an all obliterating death spewing machine. 

- when you bub on a group fight you can get two heals off usually, use the first one on your dps if he's low, then bother with yourself. 

- Spam r1 concecration everywhere.

Dueling as a paladin is just spamming bubs, who even gets pride/joy out of it I dont know but he probably likes the rogue stun rotation too and thinks it got a high skill ceiling.

tl;dr: you are a support class, even if your spec is ret or reck that doesnt change. Always remember that.

Good rets will actively switch between supporting and dps'ing pitching in where-ever necessary.

engineering has little to do with the class specifics as the use of engineering is pretty much the same for every class.

Paladin is really easy tbh and aloooot of fun

Edited by Munin
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1 hour ago, Munin said:

engineering has little to do with the class specifics as the use of engineering is pretty much the same for every class.

Respectfully disagree that engineering is equally useful for all classes. I main warlocks and paladins, and I find it to be much more valuable on paladins than warlocks, for a variety of reasons:

  1. Engineering stuns break on dot ticks — this means they frequently don't last as long for warlocks as they do for paladins. Still good for fearing pets off you, though.
  2. Engineering stuns also increase judgment of command damage. Warlocks don't get any sort of damage increase from stuns.
  3. Engineering provides paladins with a few options for engaging at range. Warlocks don't benefit as much from this, since they have several naturally.
  4. Engineering is the only way to access the coolest paladin shield in the game (in my opinion.) Warlocks can look at it.
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Good points, I personally don't play Warlock at all so I def wouldnt know. I guess the fear could be  compared to the scare beast, although fear is on a shorter cast time(?) 

Imo the ability to interrupt a cast is far more important then the actual stun duration.

2. Increased damage; yeah true. For one hit. Imo a waste to use it for this unless its a warrior/rogue/non-caster.

3. A good warrior wont let a nade nullify his initial charge, as I expect you mean this with it. But yeah I wholeheartedly agree. 

4. Cant argue with this one either.

though I can see you are very much talking from a 1v1-ish and Ret/reck perspective. I'd never use my nade for the purpose of imcreaaed dmg as the cc/interrupt os far more valuable. 

It's not that i'm saying its bad for paladins compared to other classes, its more like it's, imo, equally useful for all. Ofcourse certain classes will get more use  out of certain things due to certain mechanics.

Edited by Munin
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cba to write tons of stuff in here so if u wanna ask anything about paladin, hit me up in Discord with any questions and ill give the most accurate answer. Been playing paladin since retail day1 and achieved rank14 in there. my discord: kengar#7081

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I playde back in the day on Twisting Nether and one of my fav Paladins and made me roll one later (but to late9 were a player called Mobywan. Whas a good paladin back in the day on the server. 

I belive this is a old clip tbc arena: 

 

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A Paladin who bubble/hearths is a warrior, a true Paladin goes down fighting! 

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Heal, cleanse, blessing of sacrifice, freedom, a long stun, 3 immunity spells (one castable on an ally), LoH, some damage, plate, auras, seal of justice (if you know you need that extra possible cc when damage isn't enough or necessary), and the natural distraction you will serve as you can pvp tank because people dislike your utility. Played correctly you are dangerous to leave alive and yet can be time consuming to kill. I've even used intervention on a mage in the middle of a brawl over a flag in wsg which saved him from getting cc'ed so he could deactivate the protection and grab the flag when it dropped to blink and swiftness potion for a capture.

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