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Odysseu

Question about Hunter Spec

Everywhere I search about hunters, there's tons of builds 0/31/20, 20/31/0, 0/20/31, 20/0/31. 

But never find a screenshot of talents / a explanation of "why is this good" and "where this shine".

I want to be a BM/MM hunter for sure, don't want survival ( if it didn't turn in a "totally worst hunter of universe with 5 DPS against a Holy Priest with 500 XDDDD )  

I would like to see builds 20/31/0  or 31/20/0 and some explanations of PROS / CONS.

My focus will be on PvE (dungeon / raids) and WPvP (don't like much arenas/battlegrounds, possible will play, but not my main focus).

:D I'm grateful if someone can find or make some quickly explanation (or detailed one) about the builds, and if possible show the talent tree <3

 

Cya.

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I'm no where close to a hunter guru, but I know a few things;

  • The slower the weapon the better, no exceptions.
  • The basic 'rotation' is auto attack - Aimed Shot - auto attack. - Use at least a 3.2 second weapon so that you do not clip your second auto attack during the AS cast.
  • Get an attack timer addon to time your AS.
  • Don't use multi-shot in 5man dungeons as soon as the tank pulls. We hate that shit, even in good gear aoe threat is a pain in the arse for the first few seconds.
  • If you can't control your pet, it's better off dismissed or on passive instead of pulling half the dungeon (especially on servers with shit-tier pet pathfinding).
  • Arcane Shot is generally regarded as a waste of mana except in PvP. Equally, never waste a debuff slow on Serpent Sting. Some bosses like Moam you will need to prioritise Viper Sting.
  • Macro Tranq Shot properly.
Edited by Elicas
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14 minutes ago, Elicas said:

I'm no where close to a hunter guru, but I know a few things;

  • The slower the weapon the better, no exceptions.
  • The basic 'rotation' is auto attack - Aimed Shot - auto attack. - Use at least a 3.2 second weapon so that you do not clip your second auto attack during the AS cast.
  • Get an attack timer addon to time your AS.
  • Don't use multi-shot in 5man dungeons as soon as the tank pulls. We hate that shit, even in good gear aoe threat is a pain in the arse for the first few seconds.
  • If you can't control your pet, it's better off dismissed or on passive instead of pulling half the dungeon (especially on servers with shit-tier pet pathfinding).
  • Arcane Shot is generally regarded as a waste of mana except in PvP. Equally, never waste a debuff slow on Serpent Sting. Some bosses like Moam you will need to prioritise Viper Sting.
  • Macro Tranq Shot properly.

I'll wait to Crestfall beta/launch to download every addon I want (and I don't even know what they are :D ) 

Since I don't want to be the BESTDPSOFTHEFCKINENTIREWORLD, i'll learn about rotations in a slow mode, reading, trying, those things. 

When I played WoW (WoTLK +) I played as a DK Blood, back there a OT and I didn't have any problem about threat generation, but I guess its because the exp and updates ofc.

My personal goal is learn to handle Pet correctly, make some macros and be able to do some dungeons being a good DPS. Raids are more organized, so I'll be the "okay sir" and do what ppl tell me to do for a while till get some trust.

My main question is about Spec points distribution. I'm reading about BM/MM or MM/BM. I don't like Survival, even if it's best than BM, personal opinion xP I'm researching now if 31/20 is better than 20/31, till now seems like 20/31/0 it's the best way (from the options I'm able to try).

 

51 minutes ago, Roadblock said:

I've never main-ed a hunter so can't give advice from personal experience.

However I think you'll find these interesting.

The second one is very comprehensive, it should keep you busy for a while.

 

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Most starter builds for Hunter will pick up Surefooted until you can reach the 9% hit cap for yellow attacks unaided.

It's no surprise you had a different experience tanking in WotLK and afterwards. WotLK included a substantial buff to threat generating capabilities of tanks across the board (was pretty much the expansion where threat meters ceased to be needed for raiding) and Cataclysm further hotfixed the tank buff from 300% to 500% during the Firelands raid.

In Vanilla you have 149.5% after sinking 5 talent points into threat generation and being in tanking stance. That means for every time a tank and a DPS do 100 white auto attack damage, the Tank will get 149.5 threat on the threat table and the DPS will get 100. DPS can put out much more damage than Tanks, so you need to be wary of and keep an eye on the threat meter. Tanks in Vanilla also have a tiny amount of AoE compared to tanks in WotLK and beyond.

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On the topic of PvE specs, there's really only 2 viable specs for Hunters in PvE: 20/31/0 and 0/21/30 otherwise known as MM and Surv respectively.

MM is the one you'll probable be required to spec into if you actually want to raid seriously, it provides the most overall damage (your DPS + pet's DPS), granted your pet needs to stay alive for this to happen, not a lot of utility but hunters already have plenty of utility even without talents, and most importantly it provides Trueshot Aura (TSA), a 100 Attack Power buff for you and the rest of your party, which is probably the second most important reason why hunters are brought for raids (number one being Tranquilizing Shot). Slight variations of this MM do exist by taking 3 points out of Ferocity and putting them into either Monster Slaying (for BWL) or Humanoid Slaying (for MC), the latter I personally wouldn't recommend because half the bosses in MC are not humanoids, but it's up to you.

The only reason Surv is even a thing is because of the talent Lightning Reflexes, which increases your agility by 15%. Coupled with ZG buff (%15 to all stats) and Blessing of Kings (%10 to all stats), it means you can almost reach 850 agility before AQ (fully buffed of course). Suffice it to say, that on personal DPS Surv outperforms MM at about 500 agility, but in overall DPS MM is still better. Now, in terms of utility and survivabilty Surv is really good, with talents like Entrapment, Imp Wing Clip, Deterrence, Counterattack and Survivalist you bring some of the best AOE CC in the game and also it's great for PvP. This of course all sounds great, but the biggest drawback is that you don't have TSA which is one the main reasons why hunters get brought into raids, you're basically not providing the rest of your group with 400 AP, which is why Surv for PvE at least, stays as a niche spec.

 

Edited by Cornholi
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And always use serpent sting on an 8 debuff slot...

I've always put two points into Pathfinding, it's not a popular decision, a lot of people are 'wot u want that for', but it's great if you need to solo kite say Rend (because he's boned your MT) or Garr adds or BWL guards or Teremus or whatever. Point is, sometimes you'll want to have fun if you're not part of the min/max brigade.

Btw one thing I learned from Nostalrius, BM is actually better dps when you're standing around Raggy in greens.

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On 19/8/2016 at 9:04 PM, Roadblock said:

I've never main-ed a hunter so can't give advice from personal experience.

However I think you'll find these interesting.

The second one is very comprehensive, it should keep you busy for a while.

The second one is really, really great, I wished I knew that back in vanilla before I abandoned my poor little dwarf hunter ...

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Most guilds allow you to put Hunter's Mark, but that's the only debuff that you should put up as a hunter.

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1 hour ago, Cornholi said:

Most guilds allow you to put Hunter's Mark, but that's the only debuff that you should put up as a hunter.

ty

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3 hours ago, Cornholi said:

Most guilds allow you to put Hunter's Mark, but that's the only debuff that you should put up as a hunter.

Hmm I think that depends on the guild and debuff slots. Some will cry their little hearts out since HM only affects ranged AP.

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The value of mark depends on how many Hunters you have in the raid. It's generally a wasted slot though because it's a flat AP bonus. It won't scale with your equipment. As you get better gear, it becomes increasingly moot. It's much like Hemo, another non scaling debuff that mostly just wastes a slot. Your slots are reserved for buffs that scale, which usually have percentages. Curse of Shadows/Elements. Winter's Chill. Shadow Weaving. But others affect enough people to justify it, like Sunder Armor, which you must apply anyway for the tank's threat. Leftover slots are usually spent on Corruption. A Warlock will get a hell of lot more DPS out of this than your Mark, because not only is it a DOT scaling with SP, but they get instant cast bolts off it.

But another factor is the amount of slots. When Classic started, we only had 8 slots, and this was true on Nost for a while. Slots are far more strict. They later opened it up to 16, which is what Classic ended with. It was increased later, which made content easier. With 16 slots, they are less restrictive. But as I said, guilds will probably just use all the leftover slots on Corruption casts. If you don't have enough Warlocks however, vs a pile up of Hunters, then things are obviously different. There's also other debuff slots to consider, which you may or may not have, like Nightfall, and Shadow Weaving. Shadow Weaving is great to have, but they're hard to find, because most people who want to perform this role are playing Warlock. Asking a healer to switch specs for it is a tough sacrifice. As Horde, we don't have enough Priests to go around in the first place.

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Excuse me, I have my own question and since I don't want to open a new thread I will post it here.Basically it is a concern about pet AI on CrestFall, because as I was searching Nost forums, I stumbled on this, let me quote the guys (duridface,Issir):

" So, in choosing a general purpose pet to use for solo grinding, 5 mans, or even raids, I'm trying to figure out how exactly screech works on owls. Since owls have almost as much base DPS as cats, a "dash" equivalent, and can use claw as a focus dump, I figured as long as the screech debuff causes additional threat on the target, it should hold aggro better than a cat (and even cause some aoe aggro for extra mobs). However I'm having a hard time finding information on how much threat the screech debuff actually does. 

Does anyone know how much aggro the Screech debuff causes? If this server is correctly blizzlike, I'm 99% sure it should cause 100 threat at max rank, as the debuff is -100AP to all targets hit (just like Demo shout from warriors causes 140 threat, 1 threat per AP reduction). 

Follow-up question, although there is no cooldown on the ability, I can't seem to get my pet to spam it. The pet only wants to cast screech when the debuff is not on its target. Considering it is the same focus cost as claw and has no cooldown, assuming it does cause the proper amount of threat, spamming screech should let my pet hold aggro much better than spamming claw. Does anyone know if it is possible to get the owl/bat pets on this server to spam screech as a focus dump rather than only re-cast it when the debuff has dropped off their target? " - duridface

" Yeah, autocast AI is extremely broken here for Screech and Scorpid Poison autocast, especially Screech.
It doesn't make an extra 100 aggro for both main target and off targets and it 100% doesn't open nearest in-melee radius stealthed units. This ability is a poor choice for aggro management here on Nost, but it may be useful vs adds (Gollemag, Nefarian).
It has a completely different mechanic than a Demo shout since Screech must have a target and Screech does actual damage to target.
As for autocast - there is no proper solution. You may bind Screech to your PvE rotation shots, or make a swap autocasting macro for other abilities (which actually works for scorpids btw).  " - Issir

My question is, how will pet AI work here, I wanna give it attention because it is important and will be a sad story for us hunters who try different pets to see them not quite working as intended. @Darkrasp

Edited by dailybs
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Haven't the foggiest idea.  I never played hunter and have no idea how pets are even supposed to work.  We're going to deal with class spells and abilities in the early part of Beta.

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I can tell you all about how they're supposed to work, but not even I am not sure on exact threat numbers on something like Screech. This is something no one ever used because it doesn't stack with the class abilities on Warrior/Druid, meaning the only place you'd want to use it (dungeons), it's totally worthless. You're much better off with the gorilla stomp if you want an AOE, which probably deals more threat as well.

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Thanks for response guys, from mrmr's link I see this - 

"The AoE debuff of screech has an innate threat value built into it, making Screech a powerful tool for pet-tanking multiple mobs. Allow 4 applications of Screech, and then nearby targets can be shot with a Hunter's Multi-Shot without getting aggro.

There are four ranks of Screech. They all use 20 Focus, have a 5 yard range, and are instant. Effect lasts 4 sec."

So it's applications can be really good for solo mobs, for example lvl 60 ZG bat with screech would be awesome for pet aoe tanking, at lvl 60 causes 100 threat

But it seems gorilla's thunderstomp is good too. (from my quick research) So no biggie, but it will be good to see everything about pets working, cause it will be beautifull.

Edited by dailybs
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Well, first of all, Thunderstomp has a 30s CD during vanilla, so screech (when working) should be much better (no CD on it!) for AoE threat...especially during levelling, when you usually pull more than 1 mob every 30s.

Then, from another wowwiki page (later revision) http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Screech?direction=next&oldid=1268179

Quote

It is strongly advised that a hunter apply this on bosses that inflict heavy melee damage. Note that the different ranks of screech stack with each other which allows the use of two owls utilizing the two highest-ranks of screech respectively for a total of an aoe effect of -310 attack power.

 

 

EDIT:

Too bad, ej posts can't be retrieved :(

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=7249

http://elitistjerks.com/f32/t12432-omen_-_ace_threat_meter/p26/#post388572

Edited by mrmr
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I thought it was 60 secs on thunderstomp (which is one thing that put me off gorillas, along with the low armour, which isn't good for aoe tanking).

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On 10/7/2016 at 5:02 AM, antgor said:

is Hunter allowed to put his mark on the boss?

Every MC raid I was in on Nost, we had one hunter who sacrificed talent points to have improved hunter's mark, that was the only debuff put out by one hunter when we had 4+ in the raid.

We usually dropped serpent sting on Onyxia when we had it on grind and wanted to piss off the guild leader (Moar dots Moar dots).

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