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Darkrasp

Darkrasp's Update 9/26/2016

66 posts in this topic

Okay, lots of questions to address.  I'll try to answer them all as best I can, but please understand that not everything is set in stone yet.

7 hours ago, Nogar said:

Is there any sort of itemupdate at BWL? As i understand only a couple of recipes or items from vendors?

More or less, yes.  It would just be vendor recipes.

6 hours ago, limov417 said:

Do you guys still planning 2016 launch and this beta delay is the part of your plan?

We still hope to launch at the end of the year, but if it takes a little bit longer than that, then so be it.  We won't launch with a badly broken server just to meet a deadline we guesstimated months ago.  We're making steady progress, the server looks better every day, and when it looks perfect, we'll launch.

6 hours ago, Harpa said:

Not sure whether this has been talked about already: won't the nerfs and restrictions on the accessability of gear make the crafted gear way too good by comparison?

Crafted gear will in some cases be better by comparison, but I'm not sweating that, because very little of the crafted gear is better than items obtainable in raids, where a lot of the 1.9 / 1.10 items are.  The crafted items will be better relatively, but not objectively.  The truth is that there is always going to be a best-in-slot item.  If we nerf crafted items, then it becomes quest rewards, if we nerf quest rewards, then it becomes something else.. are we just supposed to keep on nerfing best in slots over and over until people are raiding molten core in crap from Razorfen Downs?

The intention in rolling back stats and witholding items from the later patches was to increase the relative difficulty of the preceding encounters by removing items Blizzard added once they had "figured out" itemization, and added items that are significantly better than raid drops.  Many of those dungeon blues they stuck in Blackrock Depths are legitimately better than anything that drops in MC or BWL, and in some cases even AQ.  Most crafted items can't make the same claim.  A handful, sure, but not that many.  Same goes for quest rewards.  We're striking a balance.

4 hours ago, Decads said:

Does this include the R14 weapons added in 1.11, i.e Grand Marshal's Warhammer?

Items added after 1.9 will be withheld until the Great Item Update Patch.  The original set of R14 weapons will be released in their buffed state, but the Warhammer and Spellblade won't be in the game initially.

3 hours ago, Momonn said:

On Nost I remember being able to loot DMF items like glowing scorpid blood, vibrant plumes and evil bat eyes...is it blizzlike to withhold them?

Yes.  They have no purpose in the game other than DMF rep.

35 minutes ago, Duyi said:

if you're not reverting quest items to the pre 1.11 state, isn't it very possible that the pre-raid bis items will all just be overpowered quest items?

See the response to Harpa's question above.

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Just now, Duyi said:

Elaborate, please?

he or she are words that should never be present in an accepting society...

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6 minutes ago, pants said:

he or she are words that should never be present in an accepting society...

what? tell me that you are trolling please or i get triggered

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the idea that 1.11 r14 weapons for casters/healers will be withheld because "they released later" (as if operating under the idea that blizzard had any idea what they were doing with item balance and progression, as evidenced by the entire vanilla content progression) when they are on par or worse than the equivalent weapons already in the game for warriors/rogues is something i've always found ridiculous

the only weapon that is added that is any good past BWL is the healing mace, and even then its third(?) bis once AQ comes out, meanwhile GM swords are bis until Naxx, even above AQR, they will be obtained by a few people before BWL has even been cleared AND will be the main contributing factor as far as ridiculous clear times are concerned due to stacking r14 melees in the same guild like NOPE does. spell blade isn't even that much better than claw/AV tomes or shadowflame from BWL, certainly not good enough to warrant ranking to 14 when those alternatives are available for immensely less effort

heaven forbid casters actually have a reason to rank past 10 (if that) on this item progression set up

edited for clarification

Edited by Mecher
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1 hour ago, Mecher said:

the idea that 1.11 r14 weapons for casters/healers will be withheld because "they released later" (as if operating under the idea that blizzard had any idea what they were doing with item balance and progression, as evidenced by the entire vanilla content progression) when they are on par or worse than the equivalent weapons already in the game for warriors/rogues is something i've always found ridiculous

the only weapon that is added that is any good past BWL is the healing mace, and even then its third(?) bis once AQ comes out, meanwhile GM swords are bis until Naxx, even above AQR, they will be obtained by a few people before BWL has even been cleared AND will be the main contributing factor as far as ridiculous clear times are concerned due to stacking r14 melees in the same guild like NOPE does. spell blade isn't even better than claw/AV tomes or shadowflame from BWL

heaven forbid casters actually have a reason to rank past 10 (if that) on this item progression set up

Let's make a few clarifications here http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23466 - spellblade, http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19347 - Claw of Chromaggus. Then there is an AQ drop http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21622 which is pretty much identical to Spellblade, Claw is worse by 10 sp and a 1 crit (depending on class how this translates into SP for pve purposes). 

Whereas Shadowflame staff is http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19356 84 SP+ 2% crit which isn't better than using a Spellblade (72 sp 1 crit +Tome 34SP; totaling 106 SP + 1% crit)

As for the Battlemace http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23464, Lok'Amir being the BWL equivalent http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19360 and it definitely falls short with a flat 50 point healing power difference. And the AQ comparison from C'Thun http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21839.

With that being said; I agree, casters should have an incentive to rank up and they should possibly get these items sooner but don't spread misinformation to push a point. 

Edited by Ciar
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24 minutes ago, Ciar said:

Let's make a few clarifications here http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23466 - spellblade, http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19347 - Claw of Chromaggus. Then there is an AQ drop http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21622 which is pretty much identical to Spellblade, Claw is worse by 10 sp and a 1 crit (depending on class how this translates into SP for pve purposes). 

Whereas Shadowflame staff is http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19356 84 SP+ 2% crit which isn't better than using a Spellblade (72 sp 1 crit +Tome 34SP; totaling 106 SP + 1% crit)

As for the Battlemace http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=23464, Lok'Amir being the BWL equivalent http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=19360 and it definitely falls short with a flat 50 point healing power difference. And the AQ comparison from C'Thun http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=21839.

With that being said; I agree, casters should have an incentive to rank up and they should possibly get these items sooner but don't spread misinformation to push a point. 

could you please revise this post as it has several micro aggressions. This forum is a safe place for everybody. Thank you! :)

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1 minute ago, pants said:

could you please revise this post as it has several micro aggressions. This forum is a safe place for everybody. Thank you! :)

How about you stop polluting the forums with garbage until the server is actually up, yeah?

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4 minutes ago, Ciar said:

How about you stop polluting the forums with garbage until the server is actually up, yeah?

I am sorry you feel this way. I am simply standing up for those who cannot.  We are all here to have fun and support a potentially successful server.

Edited by pants
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It has already been stated that they wont be witheld, why even bother with this argument.
The devs stated they know that the time investment is so massive, that they won't deny people their rightful advantage.
Edit: Nvm just read Darkrasphs statement, pretty bogus indeed. The very little incentive casters have to go above R13 is taken away by postponing the spellblade.
I would like to remind you of how little influence caster weapons have on their DPS - Yes it's AQ Tier, but hell I wouldn't rank to 14 on AQ/Naxx patch.

Btw. because of the lack of weapon scaling for casters, I don't even deem R14 worth when these weapons are implemented right from the start.
The only ones really benefitting from it, are Elemental Shamans/Paladins that can deck themselves out in a complete weapon set.

Edited by Nuar
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1 hour ago, Nuar said:

It has already been stated that they wont be witheld, why even bother with this argument.
The devs stated they know that the time investment is so massive, that they won't deny people their rightful advantage.
Edit: Nvm just read Darkrasphs statement, pretty bogus indeed. The very little incentive casters have to go above R13 is taken away by postponing the spellblade.
I would like to remind you of how little influence caster weapons have on their DPS - Yes it's AQ Tier, but hell I wouldn't rank to 14 on AQ/Naxx patch.

Btw. because of the lack of weapon scaling for casters, I don't even deem R14 worth when these weapons are implemented right from the start.
The only ones really benefitting from it, are Elemental Shamans/Paladins that can deck themselves out in a complete weapon set.

On top of this, when people protest that these items shouldn't be in the game in patch x or y, they don't realise that the amount of them is limited by an actual restriction of how many people can reach the required rank in the given time frame, depending on how many people are actively participating in the standings every week. Add to this the immense amount of work you have to put in to acquiring the weapons, they shouldn't be gimped or lackluster for the few who go through the whole process of getting to 14.

Having upgraded t1/t2 from raids and no r14 caster weapons sets strongly disincentivizes any healer or caster in general to go high rank. 

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3 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

We still hope to launch at the end of the year, but if it takes a little bit longer than that, then so be it.  We won't launch with a badly broken server just to meet a deadline we guesstimated months ago.  We're making steady progress, the server looks better every day, and when it looks perfect, we'll launch.

Good attitude! Most of us are grateful of this. Don't stress it. (no sarcasm!)

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Regarding Rank 14 caster weapons.. They weren't in put retail until Naxxramas, and itemized to be level-equivalent with Naxxramas raid items.  By releasing them prior to AQ, they're still coming out literally months earlier than they should.

If you as a caster don't feel the grind to Rank 14 is worth the trouble given only a 4-6 month early head start on getting those items, I can offer a simple solution:  don't do it.

Edited by Darkrasp
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the higher ilvl = better meme is a pretty good one

remind me to replace my lionheart helm with a helm of endless rage come bwl darkrasp

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29 minutes ago, Darkrasp said:

Regarding Rank 14 caster weapons.. They weren't in put retail until Naxxramas, and itemized to be level-equivalent with Naxxramas raid items.  By releasing them prior to AQ, they're still coming out literally months earlier than they should.

If you as a caster don't feel the grind to Rank 14 is worth the trouble given only a 4-6 month early head start on getting those items, I can offer a simple solution:  don't do it.

from your post above:


>Items added after 1.9 will be withheld until the Great Item Update Patch.  The original set of R14 weapons will be released in their buffed state, but the Warhammer and Spellblade won't be in the game initially.

so when exactly is this huge item patch?

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3 minutes ago, Mecher said:

from your post above:


>Items added after 1.9 will be withheld until the Great Item Update Patch.  The original set of R14 weapons will be released in their buffed state, but the Warhammer and Spellblade won't be in the game initially.

so when exactly is this huge item patch?

The war effort.. he said it plenty times..

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4 minutes ago, Haps said:

The war effort.. he said it plenty times..

 

i dont think there has ever been any official stance between whether or not its going to be at the start of the war effort, or during AQ opening

ive heard both or just "at AQ"

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Eight months in: War Effort begins, Silithus questlines, Wind Stones, Green Dragons

Completion of War Effort: Item updates and Restoration, Dungeon 2 Set quests, Ahn'Qiraj Ruins, Ahn'Qiraj Temple

 

while this thread says "prior to aq"

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10 hours ago, Darkrasp said:

Regarding Rank 14 caster weapons.. They weren't in put retail until Naxxramas, and itemized to be level-equivalent with Naxxramas raid items.  By releasing them prior to AQ, they're still coming out literally months earlier than they should.

If you as a caster don't feel the grind to Rank 14 is worth the trouble given only a 4-6 month early head start on getting those items, I can offer a simple solution:  don't do it.

Same argument for the other 'updated' weapons then. These items were obviously patched in because it was a shortcoming on blizzards part - that or they weren't finished during the prior release/item patch.
(as far as my database goes they have the same item level as the other r14 weapons) 
1) Spellblade is equivalent to Femur from Viscidus in AQ.
2) mace is beaten badly by C'Thun mace.
3) Caster Weapons don't even have much influence on the class it just gives you a BiS item that you don't have to replace for a long time.
   (thats why i why i never bothered to go for r14, even when those items were in the game)

I really don't understand the point here, in my eyes it's trivial:
- Either you release all updated R14 items prior to that patch or you don't and go with Blizzlike(No. God No.)
- I don't wanna sound spoiled - but this is one of those obvious shortcomings from Blizzard's that doesn't have to be repeated artificially.

(Nostalrius didn't release them either when the other weapons were updated-_-.
I genuinely felt bad for our shaman, that grinded to r14 for nothing but a little enhancer "fun". 
Shoutout to Zusukie for being awesome anyway. 9_9 )

Edited by Nuar
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The exact timing of the update patch hasn't been decided on, but it's going to be some time between the release of ZG and the release of AQ.  AKA, roughly the time of the War Effort.  I can't give you a specific date right now, but somewhere in there.

Point is, it's impossible to make everyone happy.  The items are being withheld, which pisses some people off, but they'll be released months earlier than they should be, which pisses other people off.  In this case it's a compromise people will just have to live with.

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oh well, i guess

pvp on crestfall is going to be something else, can't wait to see masochist warriors running around in their level 58 leveling tier pvp sets with no applicable t1/2 gear like every other class has and pre-buffed BRE with no stam and the 300 armor reduction curse on target mages can just decurse off, wew

also paladins running around in full banana gear until ZG/AQ as t2 is optimized for ret and the un-updated paladin pvp set is probably the worst optimized set for anything in the game. i suppose it will be cool to see some of the ZG set pieces be utilized by a few people maybe

gunna be a grand time for the ol alliance premades

pve hero ud mage for me, t2 and shadowflame boiiiiii, see you guys in wpvp as thats the only place anyone will be aside from people(?) like slipry and monkeynews

Edited by Mecher
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Is it hard to just update the pvp sets when ZG releases, then release the patch 1.11 weapons on the big item patch? That sounds to me like the best compromise honestly.

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2 hours ago, Mecher said:

pre-buffed BRE

Actually, we can't nerf Bonereaver's Edge.  Blizzard kept the spell proc but changed it's properties, so that old -300 armor debuff isn't even in the game client anymore.  Our only choices are to keep the 700 armor pen proc, or remove the item entirely.  I didn't remove the item, and I have no intention of doing so.  We could maybe do a big, nasty hackfix, override a bunch of the spell.dbc and put it back to the old way, but even then the tooltip would still be wrong, and we don't like hackfixes.  So, another compromise among many:  BRE goes in at full power.

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1 minute ago, Darkrasp said:

Actually, we can't nerf Bonereaver's Edge.  Blizzard kept the spell proc but changed it's properties, so that old -300 armor debuff isn't even in the game client anymore.  Our only choices are to keep the 700 armor pen proc, or remove the item entirely.  I didn't remove the item, and I have no intention of doing so.  We could maybe do a big, nasty hackfix, override a bunch of the spell.dbc and put it back to the old way, but even then the tooltip would still be wrong, and we don't like hackfixes.  So, another compromise among many:  BRE goes in at full power.

would it not be possible to issue some sort of patch verified through the auth server to make it a reality?

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