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Sakritan

Detail matters! What do you want?

126 posts in this topic

Hi all!

I was thinking about the small details in the game that arent gamebreaking but adds nice flavor and immmersion to the game, and are commonly missing on other private servers - Those things that are part of stock mangos and usually never fixed, because they usually claim the priority is on "more important things". While thats mostly true on a server that has already launched, they have their hands too full with class bugs and end-game to get around to the flavor and small details. Here is our chance to make them heard so the devs will get them looked at and hopefully fixed before launch!

I know they are already aware of most things and events, as was proved with @Darkrasp's latest update where he mentions "Events would be things like the Silithyst stuff, Pyrewood Village switching from humans to worgen, the Westfall graveyard, the Southshore Assassins, etc.  I suppose the holiday events also fall into that category. ". It seems like they are on top of things, and as scripting stuff is well underway right now, its the perfect time to bring this stuff up here.

So to get things started I can think of a couple of things.

* Sleeping wildlife (such as worgs, bears etc) during the night  - I only ever saw this on one private server, Kronos. Its flavor but also gives you the oppurtunity to walk by them without the need for combat, which is cool.

* Stormwind scripted! The whole town. Guard patrol paths, Stormwind orphan Donna chasing William for a doll, Miss Danna (School mistress) showing the kids around parts of Stormwind.

* Rexxar patrolling Desolace, Feralas and Stonetalon Mountains!

* Rare mobs everywhere! And with proper spawns and loottables.

* Quest Torek's Assult in Ashenvale

* The Great Masquerade questline/event - Part of Onyxia attunement chain

* Stitches questchain and event in Duskwood

* The quest 'Ammo for Rumbleshot' - Awesome Dwarf quest, Mortar Combat!

* The quest 'The Attack'

* Horde-only quest 'Freedom for All Creatures' - You get pet

* The questchain 'The Legend of Stalvan'

* The quest 'Screecher Spirits' chain. (For some reason its usually buggy, prob cause its bugged in stock core?)

* The questchain 'You Are Rakh'likh, Demon'.

* The questchain 'Rewriting the Battle of Darrowshire'.

* The Tirion Fordring questchain 'Redemption'.

* The Commander Gor'shak questchain in Blackrock Depths.

* The elemental invasion (Patch 1.4)

* AQ Events, Scepter of the Shifting sands/War effort (This is a given and already mentioned by staff)

* Scourge invasion (Also a given), as is Dark Portal Opens event before TBC.

 

Alot of the quests mentioned above are also found here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Long,_exceptional,_or_hidden_questlines
I also love this old article about the evolution of NPC's from Vanilla to TBC. Granted its mostly about TBC, where "living NPCs" really started but still: https://www.engadget.com/2011/09/18/know-your-lore-npc-evolution-from-wow-to-the-burning-crusade/
It will be really interesting to see how good the Crestfall devs will be able to script NPC's in TBC, because its alot more heavily scripted and living, just Shattrath alone (as the article proves)

Im sure there are plenty of more but I cant come up with any right now. 9_9
If you guys can help out coming up with small details/mechanics/events/questscripts etc that you would like to get some attention to, please tell! It doesnt have to be quests either!


I also saw they added two small videos showing off some scripted NPCs:

Theramore - Guard Lasiter - https://vid.me/xX80

Read vs blue - https://vid.me/Oqcp

Thats a nice touch! We need more of these showcasing videos!

Cheers!

Edited by Sakritan
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Hmm...for me, this is more a mechanic of the game that I find absolutely infuriating on private servers but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S GOOD IN THE WORLD, please do something about spawns/respawn time/clustering of mobs. On most private servers, leveling alone even with a decent class and gear is difficult not because of the game itself, but because of the way mobs are handled. Mobs will die and then respawn in two minutes or less so if you're trying to clear a place to get to a quest location or item, soloing becomes difficult. Sometimes, mobs spawn more than they should - for example, when you see two mobs merged as 'one' or there's three mobs in a place where there's usually only one. Oh! And when a mob can aggro from distances they SHOULDN'T be able to aggro...stuff like that really pisses me off and ruins the immersion. Again, I know it's more scripting and bugs than anything but I really hope they fix this and have it be decent opposed to most shitty private servers. (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, KRONOS 2)

Other than that, for details sake, I'd REALLY REALLY REALLY love if they could implement holiday stuff/events in the future/later patches from time to time. :) I loved the Halloween/Christmas/Valentine's stuff on retail because it made the game feel a bit more special/had some side stuff to do. I know they're already contemplating on implementing this but if they did, I would be so stoked! 

Another detail I hope they put in/fix is that there should be NPCs that you can't interact with AT ALL. On most private servers, there are NPCs on retail that don't talk but on the PVS, you can click on them and all they say is 'Greetings, <insert name here>' - it's really aggravating to me, for some reason. If you can't do this, at least get someone to volunteer to write up different NPC text for when you click on 'em...hell, I'll do it! I love coming up with random banter, lmao. I liked that about later expansions and patches...made the game seem more immersive than just a big ol' sandbox. 

Otherwise, great suggestions, Sakritan - I do hope that these will be looked at to make Crestfall the absolute best place to have a great vanilla experience. 

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26 minutes ago, Clavus said:

Similar topic:

 


Aww, I didnt see that thread. Crap! Sorry for making another one. I guess it cant hurt to remind them with similar topics (I want sleeping wildlife at night!), but yeah.. Thanks for the heads up Clavus! Will read that one. If anyone got any more wishes they can write it here anyway I guess :)

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55 minutes ago, cell007 said:

Snip*


Nice writeup Cell!

I think the Mob spawning will be very blizzlike here. I read alot of people want to have faster respawn timers in crowded areas, but the staff said something about its downsides and how it can be abused by guilds who place alot of people in one spot to make certain things spawn faster, abusing the dynamic respawn thing. So I think they will go for a blizzlike vanilla spawn timers, the downside of this will of course be the server opening night when it will be downright impossible to quest unless you somehow manage to get ahead of the pack, or just decides to wait a few days after launch/or roll on the PVE server:P

The holiday stuff would be pretty cool indead. That rarely works on other private servers, but I saw Darkrasp mentioned it in his update. We will see if they manage to pull it off better than the rest!

And lastly, I think I remember them having mentioned that part about "Greetings, <insert name here>'" -npcs and they are aware of it. So that shouldnt be an issue here hopefully. Good thing to mention though! Those are indeed pretty annoying. When I hover over NPCs and see the dialogue icon, I want them to say something interesting and not stupid greeting ^^

Edited by Sakritan
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It is always heartwarming to see the community care so much about little details. A post like this is always welcome in my eyes, tho I'll redirect to that older one :D

About the respawns, iirc they are going to have quicker respawn rates at launch. It won't be blizzlike at that moment, but so many players in one zone are not blizzlike either. It will still be difficult, I'm certain.

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I think the majority of players really do undervalue the details of vanilla wow servers and emulation. We can get all hyped about the simple numbers and raids, however, what made vanilla wow was that feeling of immersion it brought (at least for me.)

 

When you get immersed in a gaming a session and random small things start breaking, even if they have no actual effect, it pulls you out of the immersed state, and then you are just grinding...

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1 hour ago, Clavus said:

About the respawns, iirc they are going to have quicker respawn rates at launch. It won't be blizzlike at that moment, but so many players in one zone are not blizzlike either. It will still be difficult, I'm certain.

 

1 hour ago, Sakritan said:

the downside of this will of course be the server opening night when it will be downright impossible to quest unless you somehow manage to get ahead of the pack, or just decides to wait a few days after launch/or roll on the PVE server


Yeah, I know this is the case but DAMN, trust me when I say that there should be a limit to the time of respawns and, if possible, spread out spawn locations. I was leveling a paladin on k2 and the defias thugs, after killing 2, I would go to fight another, two respawns would literally still be phasing in and were already aggroed, running toward me, as if they had spawned next to me despite having killed them a few yards away. It was so annoying. Same with the kobolds. I'm scared just thinking about Fargodeep right now. *shudder*

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The biggest thing you'll see are NPCs or objects saying "Greetings, Name". This occurs when the server did not bother to script the dialogue box. On retail, this line did not exist, maybe on test servers or 1 NPC out of 1,000 that would eventually be fixed. Or most players would never see this. On private servers however, they are everywhere, and most servers don't care at all about them. They can't even bothered to type custom text, which would have been fine if the authentic original text wasn't available. Nost had the same problem. They'd script a quest, but before or after the quest is done, the object in question would have that text, rather than the exploration text it should. Quest NPCs you didn't need would say it, or say it after you no longer need them. They were missing their dialogue boxes.

This stems from another issue, which is the fact that private servers generally only care about their max level content, and discard everything below it, or half ass, then dump it. You see Blizzard worked on everything. They dedicated to everything. They cared about the game as a whole. Their patch notes would be covered in things for every level bracket or dungeon, not just top end raid content. When low level quests didn't work right, they'd fix it. No NPC or object was left with an engine default text in it either. They had attention to detail. People look back now on Classic and say things were primitive, but if you simply look on all the private servers, you can see the difference of work and dedication to the entire game, vs cheap imitations.

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There's one NPC in the barrens that has some pretty unique combat behavior, see (time stamped):

I don't know if there are other that're supposed to be like this though.

Edited by Pvt_8Ball
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34 minutes ago, Drain said:

The biggest thing you'll see are NPCs or objects saying "Greetings, Name".

Yep, I knew it - that's why I mentioned it in my 1st post...god I hate that so much...it grind my gears. I wonder if CF devs would allow people to volunteer to write up relevant text/dialogue if they somehow can't get the NPCs who shouldn't say anything to not be clickable in the first place? This also goes for items that you can interact with - one example being the 'strange plants' you find in the Night Elf starting zone/Teldrassil where interacting with them starts out as "Greetings <player>" and then offering a quest...and then after accepting the questing, still being able to interact with the object and it "saying" 'Greetings <player>' SO ANNOYING and very lazy development/scripting in my honest opinion. 

on that note, devs, please let me help with NPC text/dialogue/banter if you can't fix this problem by making the proper NPCs non-clickable/interactable - I do creative writing for fun, that sorta thing is my deal, yo xD

@Pvt_8ball
That's actually pretty cool...not sure if it was like that on retail (can't remember that quest, didn't play Alliance back then). It does seem more immersive than the mob just standing there waiting for certain doom, however.

OH! 

Another detail I'd like to see implemented - making sure that mobs who run are running at a speed that is correct. I remember distinctly on retail, that mobs that ran would run at a slowed pace. Not at 'regular' speed but not too slow. On tons of private servers, mobs tend to jet like they're on speed or something. AND a lot of mobs don't get slowed by slowed effects such as chill/hamstring, wing clip, etc. For any server to be a success to me, this needs to be addressed and fixed x_x

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8 minutes ago, cell007 said:

Yep, I knew it - that's why I mentioned it in my 1st post...god I hate that so much...it grind my gears. I wonder if CF devs would allow people to volunteer to write up relevant text/dialogue if they somehow can't get the NPCs who shouldn't say anything to not be clickable in the first place? This also goes for items that you can interact with - one example being the 'strange plants' you find in the Night Elf starting zone/Teldrassil where interacting with them starts out as "Greetings <player>" and then offering a quest...and then after accepting the questing, still being able to interact with the object and it "saying" 'Greetings <player>' SO ANNOYING and very lazy development/scripting in my honest opinion. 

on that note, devs, please let me help with NPC text/dialogue/banter if you can't fix this problem by making the proper NPCs non-clickable/interactable - I do creative writing for fun, that sorta thing is my deal, yo xD

You will see next to 0 NPCs with the classical "Greetings! <PLAYER>" on Crestfall. Even at this stage, we are very away from other servers when it comes to gossip texts.

Edited by Daribon
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1 minute ago, Daribon said:

You will see next to 0 NPCs with the classical "Greetings! <PLAYER>" on Crestfall. Even at this stage, we are very away from other servers when it comes to gossip texts.

If I find even one, I'm gonna start flipping tables.

J/k. Thank you - I'm glad that this won't be as big an issue as it is on most private servers...man, this irks me so much for some weird reason. But yes, thank you, that's what I wanted to know/see from the devs about this issue in particular. :) Just a question then, if the NPCs don't face this problem, are they unable to be interacted with, like in retail, as they should be? 

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Good. How about mob run speeds? On other servers, when a mob is at low HP, it does not properly slow down, or snaring it simply doesn't work.

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1 minute ago, Drain said:

Good. How about mob run speeds? On other servers, when a mob is at low HP, it does not properly slow down, or snaring it simply doesn't work.

already been verified.

the slow down and "run away" effect is for humanoids only IIRC.

 

@Darkrasp could probably answer it more. 

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9 minutes ago, cell007 said:

If I find even one, I'm gonna start flipping tables.

J/k. Thank you - I'm glad that this won't be as big an issue as it is on most private servers...man, this irks me so much for some weird reason. But yes, thank you, that's what I wanted to know/see from the devs about this issue in particular. :) Just a question then, if the NPCs don't face this problem, are they unable to be interacted with, like in retail, as they should be? 

If you have the rare opportunity to find a mob with missing gossip text, it will display the following text:

u4FBPBM.png

So it's very easy to notice if some text ain't right.

There are some rare cases where it will display "Greetings <PLAYER>" but those are only for gossip texts that are directly related to quests and are sent through a different opcode than the normal gossip texts. They are a lot harder to find than normal gossip text but it should all be finished in beta.

 

Edited by Daribon
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Awesome - thank you for that. Either way, be sure that I will let devs know if I find anything. 


As for the slowed mobs and running away...yes...that's why I mentioned it. I'm just wondering if it's already been fixed or just addressed. Only mentioned it because it's usually a problem on every server I go to/played on before. 

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47 minutes ago, Drain said:

Good. How about mob run speeds? On other servers, when a mob is at low HP, it does not properly slow down, or snaring it simply doesn't work.

Works.

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The bug that bothers me to this day I've never seen it fixed anywhere, Shadow form for priests. If you mount while in shadow form, for some reason it changes its coloration (making it more transparent and removing the purple coloration) and does not reset till you either recast shadowform or enter an instance.

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I hate when i see mobs pathing and they all of a sudden start walking up in the air and then down again lik eits an invicible hill thye walk on. Not game breaking but that bothers me. Or quests that i cant finnish orthey just made "auto" finnish.

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Judging by Trinity, nobody really knows what they're doing :D. It's true that for example Stormwind NPC were scripted, but not linked together, so the three mages that go around talking about a love potion would end up in different parts of the city over time.

But that was visible. The rest of the stuff is just dumped there by TC so it's present, and nobody bothers to fix it, as they all have work to do either on the current expansion, or on the endgame. At least I was going around fixing spawn timers, vendor inventory and some simple quest miscellaneous or gobject/mob drops. The thing is, freeservers usually don't have the manpower to do these things, and if they do, majority of the devs doesn't care - those do do so "after hours". One of the guys we had had a sideproject to give all dungeon NPCs weapons, since TC doesn't seem to have them, at least for vanilla endgame.


Also there is a "bug" that is more egregious and infuriating thatn "greetings $n". It's quests that have progress quest text (the one that displays with the "continue" button) from another quest. There's myriads of them (one particular example is Speak With Gramma in Elwynn which has a progress text from Are We There Yeti in Everlook). And one in Redridge that is either custom or was sniffed by some miracle that nobody but russian private server databases recorded it :D.

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2 hours ago, Terminus said:

The bug that bothers me to this day I've never seen it fixed anywhere, Shadow form for priests. If you mount while in shadow form, for some reason it changes its coloration (making it more transparent and removing the purple coloration) and does not reset till you either recast shadowform or enter an instance.

This happend on retail as well.

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5 hours ago, Adelinemdr said:

This happend on retail as well.

should see the shit on Retail in regards to charging. :)

you can charge right through the ground and get insta DCed.

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Im glad to see this topic got some attention, and we even got @Darkrasp and @Daribon to come visit it! Cheers! :)

 

17 hours ago, Pvt_8Ball said:

There's one NPC in the barrens that has some pretty unique combat behavior, see (time stamped):

I don't know if there are other that're supposed to be like this though.

I never saw this video from Kronos and how the NPC behave. I never ever saw mobs act like that on retail, so maybe this is something they made themselves to make it more challanging? I dont know. Can someone confirm this? And if this is correct behavior, will Crestfall have it too?

 

17 hours ago, cell007 said:

Another detail I'd like to see implemented - making sure that mobs who run are running at a speed that is correct. I remember distinctly on retail, that mobs that ran would run at a slowed pace. Not at 'regular' speed but not too slow. On tons of private servers, mobs tend to jet like they're on speed or something. AND a lot of mobs don't get slowed by slowed effects such as chill/hamstring, wing clip, etc. For any server to be a success to me, this needs to be addressed and fixed x_x

Me personally I love having mobs running away fast, it really adds to the difficulty. I mean sure if they are have effects like chill, hamstring, wing clip etc they should run away Slow and correctly. But if not, they should run pretty fast to get help, and make you pay for it. Making the player actually think about using their toolkit I think is the right way, we want a challanging experience and its not like vanilla got too many mechanics in them, so fleeing is a very important part and I just love this mechanic ^^

 

12 hours ago, Xaverius said:

Judging by Trinity, nobody really knows what they're doing :D. It's true that for example Stormwind NPC were scripted, but not linked together, so the three mages that go around talking about a love potion would end up in different parts of the city over time.

But that was visible. The rest of the stuff is just dumped there by TC so it's present, and nobody bothers to fix it, as they all have work to do either on the current expansion, or on the endgame. At least I was going around fixing spawn timers, vendor inventory and some simple quest miscellaneous or gobject/mob drops. The thing is, freeservers usually don't have the manpower to do these things, and if they do, majority of the devs doesn't care - those do do so "after hours". One of the guys we had had a sideproject to give all dungeon NPCs weapons, since TC doesn't seem to have them, at least for vanilla endgame.


Also there is a "bug" that is more egregious and infuriating thatn "greetings $n". It's quests that have progress quest text (the one that displays with the "continue" button) from another quest. There's myriads of them (one particular example is Speak With Gramma in Elwynn which has a progress text from Are We There Yeti in Everlook). And one in Redridge that is either custom or was sniffed by some miracle that nobody but russian private server databases recorded it :D.

Absolutely agree with you here. But then again, this thread is about all the details :) No one is more important than others. Umm, well maybe they are! But everything can be mentioned here regardless, and who knows, maybe the devs havent thought about that particular thing so us mentioning it will get it done. We all want Crestfall to be THE next thing, and to make that happen we can offer all help possible. And also, what does TC have to do with vanilla? Interesting info tho! :)

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