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Thrixsulpax

The grind

67 posts in this topic

So just how hard is the leveling grind for warriors. Is it super slow because have to constantly eat? I never leveled a warrior in Vanilla.. how is it?

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1) Always carry food. You'll always need it. In the lower levels, you might have to eat after every 2-3 mobs just to keep fighting. Food drops quite commonly on certain mobs (bandits, ogres, etc), but you could always fish/cook up tons of it for next to nothing. Need food? Fish at a lake. Then cook it. This makes more sense than buying it all off a vendor, as certain fish sell for good money. (ie mana regen) You'll get these to sell while stocking your own junk to eat.
2) Carry a stack of the best potions you can. You won't loot the best you can use for your level, so buy them. They aren't expensive. The buff ones don't hurt either. Pulling more than intended usually means eating a potion, or dying. The first is more ideal, not because of the repair bill, but because of the wasted run time to get back then revive. Unless you know the graveyard is really close by, it's not ideal to die.
3) Do dungeons. Tanks are rare in Classic, especially on Horde, because we do not get Paladins nor as many Warriors. A Horde Warrior is begged all the time to come tank runs even when he isn't looking for them. Since Warrior eats a dick until 40+, you could tank dungeon runs. Other people kill the mobs for you. This is especially ideal on PvP, because you'll be ganked out in the world. Warrior don't PvP well at all until 40+, again, you need a decent strike. You also need all your abilities from the 30s. If you don't have Intercept/Pummel yet, you can forget about killing players.

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Drain hit on fishing and cooking, a great combination that will help you in a multitude of ways. First aid is always a useful addition.

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Main benefit of First Aid is when the broken ass private server combat bugs you, thus you can't heal... I had to Alt F4 on Kronos regularly, as in, about 100 times per day, to drop combat bugs. Playing a Warrior/Rogue is miserable on there. I was a Druid, who doesn't have it as bad because I could just heal and dump stealth. But still, a caster with no mana left being told he can't drink water because he's stuck in combat vs nothing probably isn't fun either.

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Leveled a warr to 34 on feenix when it went riperinos due to nost. 

I'll forever be mad at nost for making me waste that time and anger.

Warriors are incredibly frustrating in vanilla. Even when the numbers are rolling in your favor it still is slow and grindy. Too often You find yourself 1v1 against a mob only 1 lvl higher and you're going swing for swing with it praying you don't miss or get dodged because it means you die. 

And don't pull 2 mobs...

And the money made from selling cloth is nil because you need every single piece.

And you need to actually keep gear upgraded constantly. Run dungeons often to keep yourself geared but that leads to slower xp but it has to be done. Keep ranged ammo otherwise you won't be able to even fight mobs if they're in a camp.

I'm leveling a dudu on k2 right now which is laughably easy, I'm considering giving a warr a go on cf because I'd love to tank and there are never tanks. Maybe the population surge will lead to tons of invites to groups and I can stay decked out.

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Disregard mister Sunshine and Happiness above me. Warriors are frustrating. It's grueling without hit gear, RNGesus can smack you with a lot of miss, dodge, parry, etc. Pulling an extra mob or getting stuck in an unfavorable situation forces you to enjoy a nice run back to your corpse or pop a CD / potion to get through it. They're not very flashy and 1v1 PvP is an effort in futility against any caster. They simply have a lot less quality of life utility than other classes.

However! You should think of the positives. They're relatively low downtime, charge and intercept will never grow old, you'll see big numbers with a good weapon and overall they're a worthwhile investment to get to 60.

Warriors are a social class. If you want to be a loner, roll something else. Warriors excel in groups. They're tanks, great dps and amazing in group pvp. Wear a shield in AV and charge to victory! Find a healer and the blood will never stop pouring. Especially Paladins. Warrior + Freedom = Unstoppable Killing Machine.

Edited by Malediction
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My advice is;

Make friends with a Mage around your level, get a few stacks of free food.
Make friends with a Druid questing in your area, try and get a Thorns buff.
Make friends with a Priest questing in your area, try and get a Fortitude buff.

While leveling, thorns is very powerful (mobs usually attack on a 1 second swing timer) and the extra health from Fort can make all the difference between living or dying. In the early stages, prioritise Stamina over Strength. This is because the amount of strength needed to reduce your 'swings to kill' is absurdly high, whereas every point of stamina counts. It's better to have 2000hp and kill stuff in 10 swings than to have 1200hp and kill stuff in 9 swings.

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It's not that bad actually. Just run dungeons to keep your gear updated (especially your weapon) and carry potions. I leveled with an Arms spec and as soon as I got Sweeping Strikes and Whirlwind (level 36 for both I believe) it got really easy actually if you never pull more than two mobs. Also remember to pull carefully and don't forget to apply Hamstring to runners and keep some rage to execute those quick. I rarely died when I wasn't surprised by horde players.

Just solo PvP can be a bit of a pain. Get yourself a paladin that knows how to play and you will be a god though.

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Warrior as main character - pain in the ass
Warrior as alt - easy peasy (this class is extremely scaling with items so you can buy 'em)

On 14.10.2016 at 5:44 PM, Thrixsulpax said:

Is it super slow because have to constantly eat?

More like You can't kill more that 1 mob at once (with low level character), and if You pull more that one - You die (Sweeping Strikes prevents that but up to lvl 29 You are screwd).
Also You can't solo elites or some "bosses" (even as an alt). First aid is a must.

Playing warrior is going a bit easier with lvl 40+ 'cause of MS/BT

On 14.10.2016 at 9:11 PM, Volo said:

 

miss

dodge

dodge

parry

miss

dodge

you died.

 

There is no "increase chance to hit" talent in warrior's talent tree so yeah - it looks like this. While leveling You will have a lot of problems with mobs 2+ level so always try to find a party while going for higher level quest.
 

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The lack of hit chance is the worst thing about Warrior. Only thing you can do about it is stick to mobs even or below you in level. But what Male said about Warrior is entirely true. It's NOT a class to solo on, unless you want to do PUG dungeon runs all the time. If you're playing this class alone, go tank dungeon runs.

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Why do you people keep saying that you die if you pull more than one mob? You can always just put up hamstrings and run while turn jumping to not get dazed, also a swing timer helps. Don't bother with shit like fishing and cooking, purely a waste of time unless you feel like completely disregarding leveling speed. Picking up mining and engi is nice however as engi you will want at level 60 and it's not that much of a hazzle to get it done while leveling. Same things goes for dungeons, don't run them more than once and even then only the ones that have good quests. Grinding good mobs is always faster.

After having leveled several warriors to 60 I feel like this "grind" is so overrated by people. It's not difficult and if you know your ways around things you can comfortably get to 60 in tops 6 days /Played.

Edited by Adelinemdr
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If Warrior will be your launch day main:

Professions:

Pick up cooking and first aid.   Fishing can help level your cooking up to 100 pretty easily as rate of catch is high and many cooking items at low level call for fish.  Fishing after 85 skill starts to slow and will slow down your leveling.   At this point, when you are grinding, kill beast for what is gonna level your cooking and humanoid for cloth.   DO NOT SELL YOUR CLOTH.   Cooking will allow you to always have the "well fed" buff to give your warrior more stamina and some spirit (helps hp regen between mobs, minor but it comes with the buff so w/e)

All cloth should be made into bandages.  Even when you get the next level bandages, if you already made lesser ones, still use those first, don't vendor them.  You WILL use them all. If you're mid HP after a fight, use a lesser bandage for a few sec, if you fought 2 things and are low, use your best bandage.

Alch/Herb:

Herbing is annoying to level at the start, so fight through it, especially on a new server roll-out.  Fight through it and while you hunt forever you can still grind the mobs lower level than you, get used to this practice (see lack of hit above) it will give you the extra early exp needed so you can complete your quest in the next zone without crying due to "the struggle".  Pick up alchemy as well to pair with it.  HP potions are easy to make and will save you SOOOOOOO many times from death.  Keep about 20 on you and stash the rest in the bank.   Make the agility and str potions as well, and fort pots for more stam (it isn't a lot but when paired with well fed buff, you are in good shape) the str and agil pots make up for having gray/green gear.   Use these buff potions when you grind in safe zones or away from high traffic areas when in contested zones.   You will get pissed off if you pop 4 1-hour potions to get ganked right after.   I usually kept 1 stack of mana pots which I would give to the healer if I do an instance, most times they don't have them and it can save a wipe = less down time.   Until your guild is ready to raid and you can afford a Force Reactive Disk, stay with these at 60 and farm up as many raid consumables as you can yourself.  Stash these on an alt bank.

Spec:

You will find a lot of controversy on this.  I've leveled 8 warriors on this patch and finally got it down (IMO) with the 8th one.  Only 2 respecs from lvl 1 to lvl 59.  Here it goes.  DO NOT DUEL WIELD!

Level 1 - 39:

Get 5% Crit, Unbridled Wrath, Blood Craze - This will increase your damage, rage gain rate, and help you stay alive.  Keep a 1h and sword with you and a weapon swap from your 2H for fighting a caster/healer.  You will not access to pummel pre 30, and it will make these low armor mobs better exp and not make your life hell due to their high magic damage/OP heal.  Swap back mid fight when you get the hang of this.

Continue down until you get Enrage and Deathwish - 1/3 imp cleave over 1/5 imp Battle shout so you can kill more than 1 mob w/o having to drink when you pair with deathwish. Piercing Howl will save your life a lot when you pull too much, and help you in some world pvp if you rolled that server.  The important thing here is Enrage talent and understanding the synergy with Blood Craze.  You will want to make a macro for "/sit" and put it on your action bar.  Reason being, when you are sitting, you have a 100% chance to be crit, and you will automatically stand up after being hit.  So you can manually trigger this extra 25% damage for 100% uptime!!!  You may think, "OMG a crit, will lower my HP too much adding down time".   Not at all, because of Blood Craze.  (remember you should be grinding mobs 2-3 levels lower than you) If you compare a normal hit, vs a crit - the amount Blood Craze will heal you for, on most mobs you actually take LESS damage.  It is a small difference, but usually is less. Unless you get crit again while standing up and don't get full use out to Blood Craze from the first crit taken.   Take this to the bank.

Finish up with maxing out Cleave, then getting Flurry and Imp Bezerker Rage - Once you get the 3/3 Imp cleave, paired with keeping Enrage up, you can now grind 2 mobs at once VERY quickly.  The damage output far exceeds 3/5 imp battle shout.  Furry and Imp Rage is self explanatory.  Grats on reaching level 39.

*Note no weapon dependency.  Equip what you can find, but keep it a 2H - weapon speed does not matter here.  Only the DPS of the weapon.  Duel Wield gives you a large chance to miss penalty that isn't worth it until raiding. Rend is good at the start of a pull on high armor targets pre-lvl 40**

 

Level 40-60

TIME TO RESPEC:

Time to get Mortal Strike and Axe Specialization - by level 40 you should have already completed your WW axe quest.  If you are alliance, you can also get the SM Axe quest, slightly better.  Focus on Mortal Strike on single targets, and on multiple targets, use Sweeping Strikes > Whirl Wind.  If you get Stoneslayer from Uldaman or Warmonger from luck/AH, you can respec to sword specialization.  Otherwise stay with your slow 2H for Mortal Strike.  (Top end damage is what matters on your weapon).

Start down the Fury Tree for more crit and rage gains - You'll notice the specialization is now Polearm.  This is for when AV is released, jump into one at lvl 51 and go the struggle for a Korrak kill for your Ice Barbed Spear.  This will be your last weapon until 60.  Not sure when it will release, but eventually it will and this is your best weapon when it does.

Finish the way you started in the fury tree, getting Enrage and Blood Craze - Time to bring that /sit macro back out.  You can stay this spec until you get better fury duel wield gear, since Sweeping strikes is really good for 5 mans.

 

Note you only respec 2 times, unless you got a good sword mid 40s, then it is 3 times total.  Killing 2 mobs becomes much easier mid to late 20s.  By the time you got 3/3 imp cleave, you should aim to grind 2 at once when you can.

When you have the choice of what type of human, kill lower armor targets.  Beast typically have higher armor so only grind on them when you need the meat for cooking.

While people advocate just run instances, it is by far the worst EXP per hour thing to do in Vanilla.  Run an instance only when you have the quest and get your blue item from it.  Otherwise the long time investment for a CHANCE at an upgrade that you may lose a roll on, will not increase your leveling time vs grinding lower lvl mobs. 

 

I hope this helps anybody who has never done the Warrior Grind, or has done it, and felt is was painfully unbearable.  It is tough, don't let anybody lie to you.  I didn't have such a guide during my day and did the all types of leveling, including protection tree in 2005, duel wield, mix between the 3.   Learn from my mistakes and growing pains and enjoy the journey.

Edited by Undertanker
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There are a few things you can do to make warrior leveling a bit easier. For one try to do quests within a level of you so that you aren't fighting mobs 2+ levels higher. Also it's a good idea to grind from 36-40 on mobs so that you get you mount on time. If you aren't super pro when it comes to questing I would follow a good guide to make sure you don't miss anything(even I use them). Even though people tell you not to buy stuff from broker, you should be if you have a pieces that are more then 5+ levels lower. The money you spend early on for gear is not significant especially if you are already leveling two professions which is a must.

The most important upgrade is your weapon so do what I do and map out weapons you can get from dungeons, drops, or quests so that you will always be up to date on your gear. I also recommend leveling with sword/board from 1-20(unless you find a good 2h) while still going Arms. There is no need to level prot as 5man instances are easy.

In my opinion Arms is the best leveling spec as sweeping strikes makes it easy to take on 2 or 3 mobs at once. It starting becoming really fast when you can kill 2-3mobs at a time then eat, but again this works well if you have a good weapon.

Warrior can be a nightmare and will die quite often whether it's in pve or pvp. By far the weakest solo class in the game and hugely gear dependent.

Edit: don't listen to these fools telling you to level fury, Arms is the way to go as 2h doesn't get that huge penalty that dualwield gets. You will find yourself killing 2-3 mobs at a time easy with sweeping strikes at 30+, the only skill from the fury tree i recommend right away is cruelty+5.

Edited by Kel
need to add stuff
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1 hour ago, Kel said:

Edit: don't listen to these fools telling you to level fury, Arms is the way to go as 2h doesn't get that huge penalty that dualwield gets. You will find yourself killing 2-3 mobs at a time easy with sweeping strikes at 30+, the only skill from the fury tree i recommend right away is cruelty+5.

I would recommend reading my post above yours here in regards to leveling spec.  And I do mention before stating to not duel wield and to keep sword and board on hand for interrupts.

Edited by Undertanker
Grammar
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2 hours ago, Undertanker said:

Once you get the 3/3 Imp cleave

Hm, does this work differently than how the Tooltip states? Improved Cleave only increases Cleave's bonus damage afaik? So Cleave Rank 5 does Weapon Damage + (50 Bonus Damage * 2.2 from talents = 110 Bonus Damage). 3 Talent points for 60 extra damage at level 60?

And while we're on the subject, I'd like clarification on Dual Wield Spec. It's easy to think it reduces the penalty from your off-hand while dual wielding, but infact only increases your off-hand weapon damage by 25% after the 50% penalty. So a weapon that only does 50% damage to begin with will only bring it up to 62.5% normal damage, correct?

1 hour ago, Kel said:

don't listen to these fools telling you to level fury, Arms is the way to go as 2h doesn't get that huge penalty that dualwield gets. You will find yourself killing 2-3 mobs at a time easy with sweeping strikes at 30+, the only skill from the fury tree i recommend right away is cruelty+5.

You can be Fury 2H. Dual Wield is terrible.

Edited by Malediction
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1 hour ago, Kel said:

don't listen to these fools telling you to level fury, Arms is the way to go as 2h doesn't get that huge penalty that dualwield gets

Fools? pretty foolish to assume levling fury means duel wield. Level fury and use a 2h.

Switch back to arms at 40.

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1 minute ago, Malediction said:

25% extra damage on a weapon that only does 50% damage to begin with will only bring it up to 62.5% normal damage, correct?

Correct.

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19 minutes ago, Nocturn said:

Fools? pretty foolish to assume levling fury means duel wield. Level fury and use a 2h.

Switch back to arms at 40.

I don't get the point of going fury over arms while leveling as you don't get anything which speeds up your leveling. Improved overpower and deep wounds make a big difference since mobs do dodge often. A lot of what makes fury great is towards 30-35+ so your asking people to level fury to then respec at 40 when you don't really get anything good other then cruelty early on... Fury is actually amazing at 60 with good gear, but to level the only reason to go fury is a personal preference, it's by no means effective.  Even at 30-40 arms is better because you get sweeping strikes which makes killing 2+mobs much easier, while fury which is even more gear dependent then arms gets destroyed. 2h leveling with fury is just a joke.. endgame it's really just about the weapons, if you have a good 2h then go with that or go dual wield if you have two better 1h.

In the end you can level as any spec, even prot, but if we are talking about effectiveness then I'd go 5 cruelty into improved heroic strike, then continue down the arms tree. Early on you don't have an instant attack so improved heroic strike is really nice. After 40 you respec out of improved heroic strike and do the standard 2parry/3rend. 40-45 you go back into cruelty and down the fury tree.

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So..... going arms to get cruelty + SS you have to be level 35.   Impale is 20% damage on your crits only, which you will have around 13% crit with bad gear.  You give no evidence, and tell people to dismiss pre-40 fury with no rhyme or reason.  So I'll help:

Our Constant will be this:

No talents but cruelty:

I Auto for 200 damage.  I Crit for 400 damage 13% of the time.   My Crit is increasing my average damage per hit by 52.  So I average my Auto for 252.   

Let's factor in your suggestion:

With Impale + cruelty (obtained at level 31)

I Auto for 200 damage.  I crit for 480 damage 13% of the time.   My Crit is increasing my average damage per hit by 62.4.  So I average my Auto for 262.4.  (4.12% damage increase average)

With Enrage + Cruelty (obtained at level 29) - Using my guide above we have 100% Enrage up-time due to /sit

I Auto for 250 damage.  I crit for 500 damage 13% of the time.   My Crit is increasing my average damage per hit by 65.  So I average my Auto for 315.  (25% damage increase average)

Additionally:

Imp Heroic Strike is countered some by Unbridled Wrath.    

I also have Piercing Howl with will save my life so less down time = quicker leveling.

I also have blood craze so the additional damage taken from /sit for enrage lets me take less damage than a normal attack in most cases.

Imp Overpower is not going to make up for 20.88% damage difference and can still miss.  Yet I have already a stronger cleave for multiple mobs, 1 level away from Death Wish and another level away from lowering my cost of execute.

 

So comparing your level 31 arms + Cruelty vs my lvl 29 fury.

I do 20.88% more average damage on my autos, which means 20.88% more rage gain from white hits as well.  I have an AoE snare, stronger cleave already, and about to get deathwish.


f5657ea6e8a5225a9c0c692817d5bf5c-micdrop

 

Edited by Undertanker
Spelling, updated HS vs Unbridled wrath
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Yea your right, if you use /sit then yes damage is higher for fury build.

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On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎30 at 5:54 AM, Undertanker said:

So..... going arms to get cruelty + SS you have to be level 35.   Impale is 20% damage on your crits only, which you will have around 13% crit with bad gear.  You give no evidence, and tell people to dismiss pre-40 fury with no rhyme or reason.  So I'll help:

Our Constant will be this:

No talents but cruelty:

I Auto for 200 damage.  I Crit for 400 damage 13% of the time.   My Crit is increasing my average damage per hit by 52.  So I average my Auto for 252.   

The talent discussion is interesting and I just have to correct a couple of math calcs:

According to my math that would be: 200*0,87+400*0,13=226

On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎30 at 5:54 AM, Undertanker said:

With Impale + cruelty (obtained at level 31)

I Auto for 200 damage.  I crit for 480 damage 13% of the time.   My Crit is increasing my average damage per hit by 62.4.  So I average my Auto for 262.4.  (4.12% damage increase average)

200*0,87+480*0,13=236,4

On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎30 at 5:54 AM, Undertanker said:

With Enrage + Cruelty (obtained at level 29) - Using my guide above we have 100% Enrage up-time due to /sit

I Auto for 250 damage.  I crit for 500 damage 13% of the time.   My Crit is increasing my average damage per hit by 65.  So I average my Auto for 315.  (25% damage increase average)

250*0,87+500*0,13=282,5

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@Undertanker Seems like you conveniently avoided to talk about the average dmg increase you gain from Sweeping Strikes compared to Enrage.

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17 minutes ago, Malediction said:

In a 2-target Cleave situation: You're essentially doing 200% damage for 5 attacks. Arms is higher during that burst, Fury is higher outside of that burst

Bingo.

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