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Old_Beardo

Clarification on itemization

35 posts in this topic

Sorry if this has been answered before, I looked at the FAQ before I made this thread and it wasn't there, but I have a question regarding the content release: specifically about spellpower. In patch 1.4 spellpower was revamped so that it .. well.. existed on items. I am wondering if we will have to wait for the patch cycle to hit 1.4 (nost did this and it was REALLY irritating as a caster) or will the itemization be post-spellpower update at launch? I am asking because this will likely determine if I play a caster or not. Having to wait 4+ months to be able to access gear that helps my class was my least favorite part of nost.

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Nost did it wrong, all green items will have their original values here and NEVER be buffed. 

This means green off-hands will have stats such as 16 shadow dmg or 16 healing, and never be buffed to 23 shadow dmg and 35 healing. 

For blues, every blue item that you would want to use have been reverted to the state where you dont really want to use them, but these will be buffed at the appropriate patches. 

So you will have access to some green gear from the start, but it will never be so good that you keep wanting to farm it rather than using blues and epics ;)... Also tiers will be at their buffed lvls on launch, so you will have access to those at least :)

Edited by Zunnie
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49 minutes ago, Zunnie said:

For blues, every blue item that you would want to use have been reverted to the state where you dont really want to use them, but these will be buffed at the appropriate patches. 

 

Not all, some; full list 

 

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Can someone explain the reasoning behind doing this? Now casters are going to have to haul around a full set of gear that is going to be buffed "at some point" and until then have a total lack of powerful items.

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1 hour ago, Ciar said:
1 hour ago, Zunnie said:

For blues, every blue item that you would want to use have been reverted to the state where you dont really want to use them, but these will be buffed at the appropriate patches. 

Not all, some; full list 

I stand by what I said.

Edited by Zunnie
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1 hour ago, Old_Beardo said:

Can someone explain the reasoning behind doing this? Now casters are going to have to haul around a full set of gear that is going to be buffed "at some point" and until then have a total lack of powerful items.

to slow down progression to a more acceptable pace

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1 hour ago, Old_Beardo said:

Can someone explain the reasoning behind doing this? Now casters are going to have to haul around a full set of gear that is going to be buffed "at some point" and until then have a total lack of powerful items.

No, by the time you would want to use those items you will already have better gear. It is done because these items were added as "catch up" items by blizzard and therefore are better then or on pair with raid items. Having them the game from the beginning would make MC almost pointless for some classes. 

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24 minutes ago, Zunnie said:

No, by the time you would want to use those items you will already have better gear. It is done because these items were added as "catch up" items by blizzard and therefore are better then or on pair with raid items. Having them the game from the beginning would make MC almost pointless for some classes. 

If you expect to have a full set of raid gear by the time 1.4 drops you might be in for a disappointment unless you don't have any loot competition.

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6 minutes ago, Old_Beardo said:

If you expect to have a full set of raid gear by the time 1.4 drops you might be in for a disappointment unless you don't have any loot competition.

No, I expect to be in raid gear by the time items get buffed... What items are you talking about?

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13 minutes ago, Zunnie said:

No, I expect to be in raid gear by the time items get buffed... What items are you talking about?

patch 1.4 (honor system patch) was the patch that added spellpower on to gear. Before that patch only ~20 items in the entire game had spellpower and generally only 3-4 at that.

 

 

edit: fixed a mistake

Edited by Old_Beardo
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21 minutes ago, Old_Beardo said:

patch 1.4 (alterac valley) was the patch that added spellpower on to gear. Before that patch only ~20 items in the entire game had spellpower and generally only 3-4 at that.

Yeah totally, this is what you are referring to right?

Quote

+Spell damage and +Healing effects have been increased in effectiveness to make them more attractive to players. Effects that increased damage and healing done by all magical spells received the largest increase, especially if the previous amount was small. We also fixed a couple bugs relating to these effects.

And here the buffs are more like

3 hours ago, Zunnie said:

Nost did it wrong, all green items will have their original values here and NEVER be buffed. 

This means green off-hands will have stats such as 16 shadow dmg or 16 healing, and never be buffed to 23 shadow dmg and 35 healing. 

Look there really aren't a lot (or any) items that you will want to pick up and wait for them to get buffed. The ones that got buffed in 1.4 were greens and blues that already had spell power or not BiS in the first place. The changes that are gonna affect you the most compared to Nostalrius are that green items will dropp with bonus dmg from the start, and your tier will be good from the launch :) 

3 hours ago, Old_Beardo said:

In patch 1.4 spellpower was revamped so that it .. well.. existed on items.

This was something that Nostalrius did wrong, instead of nerfing the spell power pre 1.4 they just completely removed it :)

Edited by Zunnie
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Cmon mate. This patch changed alot of things yes. But by that time, back in retail vanilla, all the people who played from 1.0-1.3 had to do it the "hard way", and they were already in raid gear by the time blizz changed this. And we will do so as well. Its not like MC and Ony where too hard or anything right? Its been done by most already and we know it like the back of our hand. In fact, not only will Crestfall make items pre-buffed, they will also tune those raids with little tweaks (not a flat hp% boost) to make them even more challanging, which is just awesome and well received by most of us! And the vast majority of the community voted for the greens to not only stay unbuffed, but to never be buffed ever.

I gotta ask though. Why would you want this post-buff crap? :/ I dont get it. And im not even a "hardcore" raider but rather casual raider playing odd specs so.

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2 minutes ago, Sakritan said:

I gotta ask though. Why would you want this post-buff crap? :/ I dont get it. And im not even a "hardcore" raider but rather casual raider playing odd specs so.

Why would I, knowing it is just around the corner anyway, prefer having damage increasing stats on my gear instead of not having damage increasing stats on my gear? Not sure, I must just be a filthy casual.

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Haha ye kind of, seeing as this stuff is only relevant for piss-easy MC and Ony anyway. In BWL none of this will matter anyway. Wanting better gear is normal desire of course, but now 'everyone' is in the same boat as you. So there will be equal challange for all and a better progression curve I think.

Im guessing you are also against the tweaking of raids to make them more challanging as well?

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1 minute ago, Sakritan said:

Im guessing you are also against the tweaking of raids to make them more challanging as well?

Comments like this make me think we aren't even talking about the same thing. 

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16 minutes ago, Zunnie said:

Yeah totally, this is what you are referring to right?

I was under the impression based on your response that you thought I was talking about a later itemization changing patch, such as 1.9, which I am not referring to. The AV was a time-frame reference, though it was actually incorrect and I changed it. Not in time to dodge a quote unfortunately :P

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3 minutes ago, Old_Beardo said:

Comments like this make me think we aren't even talking about the same thing. 

The reason I brought this up is because its basically the same thing.
Buffed gear make content easier. So they changed them to pre-buffed state.
1.12.1 raids make content easier. So they will tweak them to make them harder.

This goes for everyone, its an even playing field. So the question is, do you want a more challanging and in my opinion truly vanilla experience, or do you want the usual 1.12.1 state cakewalk raids until AQ?

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1 minute ago, Old_Beardo said:

I was under the impression based on your response that you thought I was talking about a later itemization changing patch, such as 1.9, which I am not referring to. The AV was a time-frame reference, though it was actually incorrect and I changed it. Not in time to dodge a quote unfortunately :P

I am so confused about this conversation in general, here are the main points on this server.

  1. Tiers will be buffed and useful from day 1
  2. Green items will have spell dmg and healing from day 1
  3. Patch 1.4 will not buff green items
  4. Gear will be added in the same patch as on retail
  5. Gear will be buffed on the same patch as in retail

AV patch did not buff a lot of items at all, some were added like Maleki, but there really were not a lot of buffs :/ Seeing how green items and tier will be useful from day one I would say that for any caster serious enough to care about this stuff, you will have an easier time here then on Nostalrius. But just like Nostalrius items will be added in the same patches they were added on retail.

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Just now, Sakritan said:

So the question is, do you want a more challanging and in my opinion truly vanilla experience, or do you want the usual 1.12.1 state cakewalk raids until AQ?

I see. I sort of assumed (erroneously) that the buffs to MC/BWL were taking into account the more refined talents, spells, and gear optimization all at once since they are evidently not reverting all changed items to pre-nerf, just some.

If their difficulty changes are done assuming we are playing without the spellpower update then I guess waiting on it is the right call, though given they are planning to do the balancing anyway I would prefer the raid be tuned around post-change (being harder) and have the update. Keeping around items that will be buffed later, but are useless at the present, just in case you cant fill a slot with raid gear is a bit fourth-wall. I do like that the tier pieces are going to be a massive upgrade though; makes the raid gear feel more .. well .. epic!

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Instead of epic you will have dungeon blues then. Just not broken greens that was better than some raid epics, lolz.. That was just shit design tbh..
But you are of course entitled to your opinion here mate. Im just saying, and the community has been vastly in favour of this, and the changes has already been made so its decision is final. :)

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6 minutes ago, Old_Beardo said:

Keeping around items that will be buffed later, but are useless at the present, just in case you cant fill a slot with raid gear is a bit fourth-wall.

Trust me you wont be doing it, the buffs are coming so late that the only people who will be using those items are people who joined the server late. 

But having these items in the game from the beginning would ruin it, like this belt. It is completely broken and would only be matched by this pre BWL. But because it is buffed so late (like 1.11) you will have a better belt by then :)

 

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21 minutes ago, Sakritan said:

Just not broken greens that was better than some raid epics, lolz.. 

By greens do you mean the random stat greens that were changed to be able to roll into pure spell-power?  I'm talking about the dungeon loot from end-game 5 mans that, prior to the patch, had an assortment of int/agi/stam and after the patch were changed to have int/spi/SP. Example: Emperors New Robes from Thaurissan. They got changed from agi to spellpower. Will the changes to items like that be present or absent?

 

11 minutes ago, Zunnie said:

But because it is buffed so late (like 1.11) you will have a better belt by then :)

This topic is confusing because itemization was changed a LOT of times so nailing down which patch can be a bit of an adventure. :D

 

I am more thinking one of the earlier patches that did the first pass of re-itemizing because before the patch I am thinking of the stats on caster gear was actually completely useless. I said 1.4 earlier but you could be correct about me being incorrect on the patch #. It was early though, definitely not 1.11

 

Edit: Second quote, didn't want to double post again.

Edited by Old_Beardo
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@Old_Beardo I see, as far as I remember there were not a lot of changes that affected the pre raid BiS list for casters in 1.4, this is the only one that comes to mind. The gear that got buffed was not really BiS because of items like this or this and Dier Maul which introduced alot of caster items in 1.3 ;)

But pre 1.3 there will be a distinct lack of healing and caster items :( 

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Which patch changed Crimson Fel Hat and Riptide shoes from Magistrate Barthilas and Hydrospawn, respectively? I choose these because they are two examples I remember being items that were changed from useless to decent in a pretty early patch. At first Riptide shoes had a little spirit and nothing else and was changed to have spellpower shortly after DM, and Crimson Fel Hat was a green with a few intellect points on it and had spellpower added to it.

I looked at the list of items being changed in the megathread started by Darkrasp (linked earlier in this thread by Ciar) and neither were there so I guess the patch I am thinking of will be included at release? Is there a database for the server or anything where we can just look up what stats items are going to have?

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10 minutes ago, Old_Beardo said:

Which patch changed Crimson Fel Hat and Riptide shoes from Magistrate Barthilas and Hydrospawn, respectively? I choose these because they are two examples I remember being items that were changed from useless to decent in a pretty early patch. At first Riptide shoes had a little spirit and nothing else and was changed to have spellpower shortly after DM, and Crimson Fel Hat was a green with a few intellect points on it and had spellpower added to it.

@Old_BeardoTo my knowledge Crimson Fel Hat was added in 1.4  and allways had 30 spellpower, it should therefore not be in game at launch. Riptide shoes was added with spirit in 1.3 just to be changed in 1.4... the items added in DM will have 1.4 stats on CF :)

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