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Darkrasp

Darkrasp's Update 10/17/2016

79 posts in this topic
11 minutes ago, Wolfrig said:

you're kinda asking for some backlash. 

Sure I'm used to community forums so it's not a big deal. I followed corecraft for a while and I don't remember them setting a date but I could be wrong.

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Think everyone knew PlayTBC was bound to be out of the box mangos, the guys running it just weren't prepared for the Nostalrius crowd lol

As for Corecraft, they did pretty well until Shiro disappeared. Guess after four years he got sick of it, but didn't have the decency to just say or pass the project over to someone else.

Crestfall, well we might be sitting here in a year saying 'release soon', but if you don't like playing World of Forumcraft, just come back every couple of months.

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On 10/18/2016 at 0:03 AM, Niasar said:

Neat update, @Darkrasp

Love the transparency and depth <3

 

Best of luck on friday :)

 

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Tooth Problem solved? Hope your better now. Much strength for the next Days, i always had Problems with eating After dental Operations

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On 10/20/2016 at 8:32 AM, Kel said:

The real point I was trying to convey to everyone was that projects with no deadlines sometimes never get done. They are a group of volunteers who come and go as they please. One week you could get work done, the next few weeks to a month nothing significant could get done. It's a trend I see on many private servers not just in wow where the project just drags along. Sometimes the person running the show is never content and that also causes even more delay.

It just sounds a bit ambitious as I've been in the private server scene for many years and with no real deadlines who knows when if ever the server will release.

This guy has a point. I have faith in the developers, and I trust them that they will deliver quality. 

However, these updates aren't really of any use, as they're non-tangible. Following the progress of these updates, none of them delivers anything that can be put in a "physical"/tangible perspective. The only relevant updates at this moment in time is when beta is set to be released, and consequently when the servers goes live. 

Not bashing, I enjoy these updates, but they're not really to any use other than knowing what you guys are working on, as there is no timeline to be followed, and thus it is hard for us fans to get a overview on where the project stands as a whole. 

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2 minutes ago, Cinder said:

This guy has a point. I have faith in the developers, and I trust them that they will deliver quality. 

However, these updates aren't really of any use, as they're non-tangible. Following the progress of these updates, none of them delivers anything that can be put in a "physical"/tangible perspective. The only relevant updates at this moment in time is when beta is set to be released, and consequently when the servers goes live. 

Not bashing, I enjoy these updates, but they're not really to any use other than knowing what you guys are working on, as there is no timeline to be followed, and thus it is hard for us fans to get a overview on where the project stands as a whole. 

If we release a date and miss it, it becomes "vanilla Corecraft" and what not. If we don't release a date, it becomes "vanilla Corecraft". Regardless of the method we use, the outcome is the same if something goes wrong or IRL becomes a hassle.

Seeing as this is work done in our freetime, trying to force a schedule on ourselves doesn't really work. That's why we produce these updates so people know work is getting done, since we can't give a direct time.

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@Cinder @Kel Up to a point yes. The updates are a community thing as much as anything else. It's also great for people like me with no great experience to see how complex the issues in creating a brand new server.

I wouldn't change it for anything.

But. There is a requirement to push on. It would be easy to announce closed beta and have people start filling in their application forms. In essence, that wouldn't amount to any big change, so the fact we are still hanging here is bizarrely a good sign.

That sign for me reads 'we're doing this under our terms, not yours'

Hard to be patient though I have to admit lol

 

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I'm honestly baffled by demands for deadlines on this, seriously.  Nobody's handing out contracts or doling out budgets; this isn't a friggin' board room or an office and nobody's getting paid for their work by the people wanting a day to circle on their calendars.  I'm simply grateful for the chance to maybe have a high quality vanilla/TBC experience sometime in the relatively near future.  I have plenty else going on in my life to keep me occupied in the meantime.  If donations were already being solicited, then perhaps I'd understand.  But they aren't.  Give me the server that launches polished and ready to roll over the one that bugs out and crashes and devs that disappear.  I'd rather have no server at all than a crap one that dies a quick death.  And the only time anyone is "wasting" on this waiting for it to come out (that isn't working on it) is basically spent on the forums.  I'd hardly call that an investment worth worrying about.  Carping about "tangible results" and "accountability" on what's essentially a hobby project at this stage is dressing up that childish emotion to have the new shiny RIGHT NOW in grown up business language to make it seem less whiny. 

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49 minutes ago, Cinder said:

This guy has a point. I have faith in the developers, and I trust them that they will deliver quality. 

However, these updates aren't really of any use, as they're non-tangible. Following the progress of these updates, none of them delivers anything that can be put in a "physical"/tangible perspective. The only relevant updates at this moment in time is when beta is set to be released, and consequently when the servers goes live. 

Not bashing, I enjoy these updates, but they're not really to any use other than knowing what you guys are working on, as there is no timeline to be followed, and thus it is hard for us fans to get a overview on where the project stands as a whole. 

I realize you said you enjoy the updates, so dont take this wrong; but I completely disagree with the perspective here.

All of these updates give a pretty clear picture of when beta will be released and when live will release. Of course, this is always going to be an approximate timeline because it would be PR suicide to set a date and miss it due to a actual work deadline. We need to remember that this isn't a company with hired workers. They have full time jobs outside of this. This is like putting a deadline or finish date on you casually writing a book in your free time. That would be ludicrous. You will finish when real life allows you to finish and no sooner.

These updates are, yes, showing that they are working, but this shows exactly what they are working on, and usually shows everything they have left, which in turn shows how soon release will be. If you have a hard time judging this by their current progress and work speed, simply ask questions as everyone else does in this thread. They respond rather promptly.

Anyhow my main problem with your response is your comment stating,

"However, these updates aren't really of any use, as they're non-tangible."

Honestly, I think this is simply out of ignorance for how coding, scripting, and server work in general is handled. This isn't an insult, just an observation of your knowledge on how servers are handled. These updates ARE of us IMMENSE use. These updates ARE tangible. You just need to understand how to apply these updates to a tentative timeline, which, I am sure, other posters, as well as admins, can help you do. Once you learn how to apply what you are reading in the updates and judging from a realistic standpoint on free time vs career paid work, you will get a pretty good idea of how soon this can happen, or how far out it is.

At the end of the day, I do realize we are all really anxious about Crestfall releasing as we know just how great it can be. Because of this, I take most of the responses here with a grain of salt, and understand that most of the responses to these update threads are written from emotion and not cognitive reasoning or logical thought. If we can do our best to be patient, and encourage the team to keep up this amazing ende, we will be in Azeroth in no time!

Edited by Knetik
basic editing
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From what I've seen it is probably best that there is no deadlines for this project. The expectations are set extremely high and I've seen no evidence that it can be accomplished anytime soon. Again, I'm an old nost player, so no bias here, but the servers expectations+hype are setting it to fail. I only say this because of the high bar they have set for themselves(like corecraft) where the server sounds heavenly and because of those expectations it never reaches that level because it's theoretically not possible. Nostalrius was a great server but it definitely had it's problems and the real reason it kept growing was the massive advertisement it received.

 I'd like to see these types of videos for some class mechanic's like blink/charge that most servers have problems with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny2Hogb_k98

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I would say a deadline is not only to satisfy the player base, but also put some pressure on the dev team. There will be huge demands to fix stuff when the server is up and running, and from what I've learned playing different private server projects, players want bugs and fixes resolved FAST, and being able to do something within a specific timeframe is highly regarded. 

2 hours ago, Humperdink said:

I'm honestly baffled by demands for deadlines on this, seriously.  Nobody's handing out contracts or doling out budgets; this isn't a friggin' board room or an office and nobody's getting paid for their work by the people wanting a day to circle on their calendars.  I'm simply grateful for the chance to maybe have a high quality vanilla/TBC experience sometime in the relatively near future.  I have plenty else going on in my life to keep me occupied in the meantime.  If donations were already being solicited, then perhaps I'd understand.  But they aren't.  Give me the server that launches polished and ready to roll over the one that bugs out and crashes and devs that disappear.  I'd rather have no server at all than a crap one that dies a quick death.  And the only time anyone is "wasting" on this waiting for it to come out (that isn't working on it) is basically spent on the forums.  I'd hardly call that an investment worth worrying about.  Carping about "tangible results" and "accountability" on what's essentially a hobby project at this stage is dressing up that childish emotion to have the new shiny RIGHT NOW in grown up business language to make it seem less whiny. 

Nice shilling. You really have no plausible argument, all you do is being "whiny" but from a different perspective. When you announce something like Crestfall, you have to be able to live up to demand, even though it's just a hobby project, otherwise the player base will turn to look elsewhere, and we all know, what makes a successful P-server project is the population. 

 

1 hour ago, Knetik said:

Honestly, I think this is simply out of ignorance for how coding, scripting, and server work in general is handled.

Indeed it is, I have no idea how coding works, I am a literal retard when it comes to anything technical. But it is because of that I would like something similar to deadlines, or like a % of how much job is completed or is to be completed before certain major events, such as beta etc, that would make it easier for someone like me to put it into perspective. 

Also, I should have stated that I am in no way making these suggestions or whatever in order to speed up the process of launching the server. I would just like to know where the devs are at in a bit more precise way for someone like me who has a very limited knowledge when it comes to coding, scripting etc. 

I will play on this server regardless, because I have never seen such attention to detail anywhere else, and I am bringing all my friends here. I am just stating my point of view. I also despise discussing opinions, it never leads anywhere. I did not mean to start a flame war. 

edit: I get that a deadline is unnecessary from quite a few points of view, such as posters above including admin. 

Edited by Cinder
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Simply put, setting a deadline and missing it is worse PR than not having a deadline.

It's really no more complicated than that.  Testing and fixing is ongoing internally.  When we need more people, we'll bring in more people.

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@Cinder

can always start learning about emulation and get in the "know" of why all these dev blogs and updates are important and tangible.

if its not important to you or tangible to you, you can always play another project that would rather give you a half or better yet quarter finished emulation product and make due with that.

the reason why people like the dev updates is for those details and technicalities that go under the radar on other projects. this is why a good chunk of the private server community wants this project to "get it right first" rather than rush it out and fail.

 

a great example would be Diablo 3 at release. :P we all know how that turned out after they rushed its release. 

go play other games and come back every so often and check on the progress. i'm sure the world will know if CF announces Beta or even a release. that you can count on. :D 

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20 hours ago, Kel said:

From what I've seen it is probably best that there is no deadlines for this project. The expectations are set extremely high and I've seen no evidence that it can be accomplished anytime soon. Again, I'm an old nost player, so no bias here, but the servers expectations+hype are setting it to fail. I only say this because of the high bar they have set for themselves(like corecraft) where the server sounds heavenly and because of those expectations it never reaches that level because it's theoretically not possible. Nostalrius was a great server but it definitely had it's problems and the real reason it kept growing was the massive advertisement it received.

 I'd like to see these types of videos for some class mechanic's like blink/charge that most servers have problems with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny2Hogb_k98

Just an observer of the project with truly no dog in the debate of releasing a date or not. It's apparent that the projects beta and live test will come when they feel it is ready. I made an account to to say I highly agree with this poster. You don't want to make a deadline for yourself which is completely understandable, but you should definitely look into finding volunteers to help with exposure. Making videos like this demonstrating your work does significantly more for the player base than releasing a deadline would. It brings hype to the project and needed exposure.

As many know the current running joke is along the lines of , Crestfall 2070 soon.  You get lumped in with Corecraft because people are afraid of the long development with no end in sight. I do believe a server will be released by the Crestfall team, because no one wants to see their hard work go to waste, but I do think releasing video updates would be better than even the written ones. While both are great, you should consider it.

One of the updates you released earlier how majority of Molten Core has been scripted, it's a perfect chance for you to highlight the hard work you have put into Molten Core and the bug fixes that puts you apart from other private servers. Next time you go to a test run of Molten Core could save the video on stream or even make your own cuts you want to show, ask a volunteers with video editing expertise if they would like to make a small demonstration video. It shows not just the Crestfall community, but the private server community as a whole that you are the real deal, and you will deliver on the blizzlike experience like no other server could.

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@TerryIrving Hello, thanks for that post, well constructed. Just out of curiosity, the ratio for members:guests is about 1:2 sometimes higher at any one time. As a former lurker ? at what point would you have normally considered joining the forums? Beta, PTR or server launch? Reply not obligatory.

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1 hour ago, Darkrasp said:

Simply put, setting a deadline and missing it is worse PR than not having a deadline.

It's really no more complicated than that.  Testing and fixing is ongoing internally.  When we need more people, we'll bring in more people.

So you do have an internal deadline which you and your team are trying to meet? If not it must be a pretty chaotic process...

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So much of this conversation is premature. Releasing videos now would probably be awful. Either they release videos of not-quite-perfected content (such as the hypothetical MC video mentioned), or they release videos of perfected content. Both choices are bad at this point: the first option for obvious reasons, the second because building hype is the last thing this place needs, particularly before beta. The forums are full of threads with people hoping for beta, videos, progress, launch, everything. Patience, please. I feel like a shill writing this (I have no connection to CF), but...Videos will be released when they're ready. Beta will be opened when they're ready. Server will be launched when ready.

There's so much hype here, on r/wowservers, and while I don't think the hype is unwarranted, it can easily become uncontrollable and dangerous.

Also as for internal deadlines, I'm sure there are some but doubt there is one for the entire project. Probably it goes like this: Rodeg is working on tools for scripters, and hopes to have X tool completed by "Weds or Thurs this week." Meanwhile so-and-so is working on Auctions, which will "probably be done in a week or two, depending on A, B, and C." Personally, I have no issue with that. Someone mentioned Asura will be / is diving into Civ VI which just released, so probably something's *deadline* or ETA will depend on how much he likes Civ VI :P Some people, teams, or tasks are particularly suited to hard deadlines while others are not. Maybe they have a super-structured and organized internal deadline and assessment regimen. Maybe they don't. Why's it matter? 

If you enjoy reading the updates keep reading. if you don't, don't read them. If you are reserving judgment until videos or beta come out, wait for videos or beta to come out. Keep the hype as chill as possible. Cautious optimism and positive support for Darkrasp, Asura, Rodeg, etc...!

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Giving a progress report in % that some suggested as they don't understand how progress is wouldn't make sense. If you cannot decipher roughly where the project is from these posts - what good would a % bar for you do? What does 50% even mean? That it would be half-done, and from what point in time? Gentlemen (and women), please let them do their shit. THE last thing we want is a C'thun scripted like Feenix. Oh my lawd....

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For me the most important thing is that they're spending time with family/friends and playing recently released games(for example Civ VI) so they don't get burned out on the project.
That is the single most important thing for the project to succeed.

If they work on the project non-stop they will either burn out or do a clumsy work.
I'm also very hyped but i also appreciate a great project so the only thing i can do is just be patient, play other games.

That being said, it would be great if people stop making threads about "when is beta" and that sort of talks =D

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5 minutes ago, ClawzTheMeow said:

For me the most important thing is that they're spending time with family/friends and playing recently released games(for example Civ VI) so they don't get burned out on the project.
That is the single most important thing for the project to succeed.

If they work on the project non-stop they will either burn out or do a clumsy work.
I'm also very hyped but i also appreciate a great project so the only thing i can do is just be patient, play other games.

That being said, it would be great if people stop making threads about "when is beta" and that sort of talks =D

Where I come from, that's an opinion we call "politically correct". 

Personally, my own wellbeing and dose of Vanilla goes before caring about other peoples lives. What's important for this project to succeed is that they release it and it's not the dogshit stock mangos going around most private servers.

When is beta?

Edited by Cthun
When is beta?
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20 hours ago, Outstanding said:

@TerryIrving Hello, thanks for that post, well constructed. Just out of curiosity, the ratio for members:guests is about 1:2 sometimes higher at any one time. As a former lurker ? at what point would you have normally considered joining the forums? Beta, PTR or server launch? Reply not obligatory.

I would of waited until the Beta was announced before I made an account.

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People, there are other vanilla projects you can spend your time on while you wait for a release date/Open Beta for CFG. We're all very excited and want to play here but patience is important. We don't want a bad leveling experience, right? The quality we are hoping for just requires time from us, the players. So, get your fix elsewhere. 

 

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22 hours ago, Cthun said:

Where I come from, that's an opinion we call "politically correct". 

Personally, my own wellbeing and dose of Vanilla goes before caring about other peoples lives. What's important for this project to succeed is that they release it and it's not the dogshit stock mangos going around most private servers.

When is beta?

such is life !

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