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[Megathread] Legacy Discussion

51 posts in this topic
36 minutes ago, spazyspaz said:

It kinda started with Burning Crusade with the Island of Quel"Danis, but you only could get 2 pieces of gear + good weapons from there.   Which wasn't enough to instantly boost you to the end tier content.   However, it did help a lot.   This was the example of a good quest hub.  As well, not ALL The missions and content was available right away.  Enough people on server had to do the missions to unlock next tier missions.   Ever since Wrath though, each previous raid tier was made worthless by a new quest hub and new dungeon and new Justice Point rewards... 

Yup. This has been the biggest flaw in Blizzard's design philosophy for years now. If they just kept releasing harder content without catch-up mechanics, people wouldn't burn through new content so fast and more people would actually bother to raid with the knowledge that the content their doing won't be trivialized in a few months.

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On 10. 12. 2016 at 7:46 AM, spazyspaz said:

It kinda started with Burning Crusade with the Island of Quel"Danis, but you only could get 2 pieces of gear + good weapons from there.   Which wasn't enough to instantly boost you to the end tier content.   However, it did help a lot.   This was the example of a good quest hub.  As well, not ALL The missions and content was available right away.  Enough people on server had to do the missions to unlock next tier missions.   Ever since Wrath though, each previous raid tier was made worthless by a new quest hub and new dungeon and new Justice Point rewards... 

Eh, you also had Zul'aman, the whole point of that place was to catch up. The initial bosses required Karazhan gear.

TBC was where daily quest hubs started. Ogri'la and Skyguard, later QD. Thing is, the first two were small and mostly revolved around farming, only QD had consistent amount of quests. So technically there was only one daily hub in the game and it was the very endgame, so it wasn't that much of a problem. Of course, by Pandaria, dailies were cancer that permeated everything.


Don't even mention the wotlk emblems. Their distribution in loot hardly makes sense and the system is totally terrible.

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2 hours ago, Xaverius said:

Of course, by Pandaria, dailies were cancer that permeated everything.

The Golden Lotus grind to unlock everything after it burned me out on the game for a solid year afterwards.   I came back to run Siege months before WoD, which I dropped by the second patch.  Haven't really gone back.  I actually liked most of pandaland.  The storylines weren't super serious most of the time but they weren't as ridiculous as what came after.  Besides, Stormstout was my favorite WC3 character so I had to check that out.  The dungeons and scenarios were a bit lackluster, raids were ok, but those dailies before the major patches started, man. 

Edited by Humperdink
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8 minutes ago, Humperdink said:

I actually liked most of pandaland.

That was the interesting thing. People yell at you that it was the worst thing to ever happen to wow (clearly untrue, that was cata), but that's mostly because they either hate pandas or they hate the Chinese. Or they think it's a Kung-fu Panda movie ripoff. Or for kids. Or something. I don't know. Pandaren were around since WC3 so that's fine with me, though seeing one in Ironforge is a bit jarring. I was just disappointed they aren't all three meters tall like in WC3.

When you look past the accusations of copying animated movies, Pandaland was actually amazing. Where Cata just tried extremely hard for a return to vanilla and rehashing every possible raid and theme and boss (no, seriously, BWD and Firelands were so ridiculously obvious), MoP brought a new continent of lore and discovery!

All of it still has ties to the general wow lore, with titans and the Sundering, and the insectoids, but at the same time, it's new and not bogged down by trying to reuse and reskin what we already know. Just a shame it was a bit muddled by the Hurrrrde/Alliance (can't think of a pun) conflict and Garrosh fucking up everything.

And of course, the expansion that followed was to TBC exactly what Cata was to vanilla, except it also had the side venture to shit all over everyone green we knew from WC1 and 2.

And that's why out of the Garrosh Trilogy, I like MoP (aka Wrath of Garrosh) the most.

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Wrath of Garrosh?  I like that.  I actually think it's kind of a shame that blizz didn't generate a new RTS with a new lore chapter after Wrath was over, probably make a sequel mmo.  Deathwing was a fine choice for a villain, but he wasn't handled well, and only the most veteran of warcraft players had anything beyond a vague idea of who he was or what he was about.  Blizz may have been right about the storyline needing a reboot, but blowing up the world everyone loved so much, in a way that made it irretrievable, was a dick move.

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I even feel like Legion is a little bit of a Burning Crusade call back.  "Lets bring back Illidan, and add those demon hunters.  Go to another new island and fight the demons!

You know what I feel like is the cause of most of our problems through Cata to Legion?  The most that prick Wrathion has to be involved, the more the expansion sucked.   The entire legendary quest line was about Wrathion.  Cataclysm started tough and interesting.  All the zones were updated, things changed.  This part was awesome and cool.  It was massive and interesting to see the entire world change as the story of WoW progressed.  This was such a massively intersting undertaking, and they way the zones changed left me amazed.  I thought it was wonderful and a breath of fresh leveling air.   

However, it was the raiding content that sucked that expansion.  Every raid was just them copying Vanilla.  Couple ofthe dungeons did that too.  The story was also very rough.

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On 13. 12. 2016 at 10:35 AM, Xaverius said:

People yell at you that it was the worst thing to ever happen to wow (clearly untrue, that was cata)

I actually really liked cata ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, i thought the heroics were great and the first raid was pretty fun. I hate dailies so I really enjoyed the tabard / rep mechanic where you could wear tabard an gain any rep that you wanted.

The main problem that we had, was that raiding was really not balanced for 10 mans. 10m heroic wyrmbreaker was fucking insane. We actually managed to kill him, but it was such a stupid fight that we said screw it not long after. (i still hate the normal/heroic mechanic, they should just release single difficulty and make it easier with the release of the new raid / new patch / catchup items)

I don't feel compelled to do the same fight with more mechanics to get loot 5 iLVLs higher, it makes no fkin sense.

MoP was terrible, those dailies took your soul and shredded it into pieces. From my point of view, it was definitely the worst expansion (haven't played WoD , but the idea of garrison is making me vomit, so it might be second worst)

 

Edited by meph
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11 minutes ago, meph said:

I don't feel compelled to do the same fight with more mechanics to get loot 5 iLVLs higher, it makes no fkin sense.

That was what was so bad about cata heroic dungeons. At least in the previous expansions HC dropped different items than normal. Cata forward, it was the same items with the same model, mostly in the same colour. Why even bother.

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12 minutes ago, Xaverius said:

That was what was so bad about cata heroic dungeons. At least in the previous expansions HC dropped different items than normal. Cata forward, it was the same items with the same model, mostly in the same colour. Why even bother.

I don't really care that the items look the same, transmog screwed it all anyway (i still have no clue why blizz thought this was a good idea) and dungeon time investment is small compared to raid so I have much bigger problem with raids being done that way compared to dungeons.

Edited by meph
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22 minutes ago, meph said:

transmog screwed it all anyway (i still have no clue why blizz thought this was a good idea)

They realized their new designs suck so they let players replace them with something respectable.

Yes, multiple difficulties of the same raids were a mistake from the start.

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33 minutes ago, Xaverius said:

They realized their new designs suck so they let players replace them with something respectable.

Yes, multiple difficulties of the same raids were a mistake from the start.

I wouldn't touch transmog with a rotten stick but everyone else seems to (pleasure themselves) on it.

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2 minutes ago, windslav said:

I wouldn't touch transmog with a rotten stick but everyone else seems to (pleasure themselves) on it.

Why would you run around in mismatched clown sets when you can look pretty? :P

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6 minutes ago, Lilaina said:

Why would you run around in mismatched clown sets when you can look pretty? :P

*proceeds to transmog into some edgelord set like rogue T5*

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While I'll never admit to pleasuring myself to transmogs, us guildless loner's had a good time rehashing some TBC and Wrath content. Doing whatever I could to fit my resto druid in 100% emerald green gear was the second most fun I had in that xpac. 

Pugging redone ZA and ZG (not being around for vanilla) was intense for me. 90% of that xpax was  hot garbage, but I found some fun here and there. 

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I wouldn't even care about transmog if it only worked for you, if you want to look nice in your own client thats fine. But I used the sets as a visual indicator of strength during PvP, now you just don't know how strong the opp is.

If you saw a warrior with IBS with rogue, you knew you could probably take him head on if you needed to. Fuck doing the same to the guy with Ash'kandi and T2.5. Now you have no clue. Besides, it was nice when gear had the added value of being either nice or ugly, now everything is just a stat stick (i remember simply refusing to use nightslayer shoulders because of how ugly they were)

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The ideal WoW server:

1. GMs monitor all game logs in real time and take initiative on player discipline instead of waiting for a complaint. In order to get hired, a GM must have previous or current experience in sports officiating and at least one positive reference from a sports officiating body, in order to demonstrate their skill and aptitude for making real-time decisions based strictly on direct real-time observation. Previous GM experience and even IT knowledge are optional, as full training is provided to GMs who meet the above criteria. An important factor is that, like all good sports officials, these GMs liaise with players to keep the peace but rely only on their own direct observation of gameplay and game logs when making decisions and imposing discipline.

2. A second-level team handles player complaints and has some latitude to impose discipline on GMs as well as on players. This second-level team also relies on game logs, but has the option to consider submissions from players and their representatives. To get hired for this job, a candidate must have previous or current job experience as a decision-maker (for example, an administrative tribunal adjudicator, a retired lawyer who has chaired arbitration hearings, or, shooting for the moon, a retired judge).

3. Cross-faction /say, world chat, AH and guild membership are enabled; but toons (including their pets and demons) may attack only toons and NPCs within 3 levels of them, and NPCs will attack toons only within 3 levels of them, even in hostile zones. Cross-faction duels are enabled, and so are cross-faction vendor purchases. Attacking the king or other high-ranking figure within a faction leaves a toon open to attack from all aggroable members of the other faction.

4. There is a hard cap on ingame items as determined by server subscription cap. For example, if the server subscription cap is 10,000 players, then the hard server cap is 500 of a specific green weapon. No mob, questgiver, or vendor can issue or sell any more of that weapon once the cap has been reached. Should a toon be deleted while in possession of that weapon, the weapon is added back to the ingame availability pool. Should a player not log into his game account for 7 days while in possession of that weapon, the weapon is treated as vendored, with the relevant toon receiving ingame funds and the weapon being released back into the pool. This applies to all non-respawning ingame entities. At the highest level, the hard cap on tiered items is exceedingly small, no more than 5 per item for the entire server, but there are additional items not available in classic Vanilla to compensate for that. (Optionally, tiered items can be lootable from the body of an opposite-faction member defeated in WPVP).

5. A guild charter is free of charge and does not require signatures to register, but /gquit and /gkick are disabled. In order to expel a toon from a guild or /gdisband, the guildmaster must make a special application to one of the officials listed in item 2 above.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head. If I think of more, I'll let you know.

Edited by quentinv
added parenthetical note
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On 12/15/2016 at 9:25 PM, quentinv said:

<snip>

1 - Already happens to an extent. Every p server has GMs in world chat.

2 - Already happens, every GM team has a head GM who spends more time handling the complaints process instead of doing the grunt work on the ticketing system.

On both of these, you're membership application criteria is batshit insane. 

3,4,5 - These are all significant changes, and have no place on a vanilla legacy server. 4 isn't even the same game any more. You might as well be playing UO or Darkfall.

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Thanks for the personal animosity. I've come to expect it on here. But you can't stop anyone else from reading those suggestions. Have a nice day.

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1 hour ago, Elicas said:

You seem to be a more verbose Antility.

Couldn't find "antility" with google, but I've got way too much free time. I'm trying to spread myself around so that I'm here less, but there aren't that many places (1) where you can post more than 100 words per message, (2) that have a non-subhuman population.

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16 minutes ago, quentinv said:

Couldn't find "antility" with google

He's a user here on the forums, lol

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On 12/18/2016 at 0:06 AM, quentinv said:

Couldn't find "antility" with google, but I've got way too much free time. I'm trying to spread myself around so that I'm here less, but there aren't that many places (1) where you can post more than 100 words per message, (2) that have a non-subhuman population.

Seems like someone didn't have his morning coffee. Tbh. Elicas has a point and stated it w/o animosity. 
Pretty much all you points are more or less invalid. A judge doesn't necessarily have any idea how rules inside of WoW work; nor does he have any qualifications in IT.
Generally anyone can be a GM as long as he's trustworthy, knows what he's doing and doesn't derp around.

Why should there ever be a gear cap in WoW? It legit makes no sense. Noone could progress since all the hardcore guilds would hoard equipment and enabling a cross faction AH, /say, etc. would completely remove the sense behind the faction system. If you could loose gear by dying in PvP noone would ever participate in it. 

Generally your suggestions would drastically change the game to something it never was. To a sort of hardcore survival MMO. Not sure that fits the definition of a Legacy Server or World of Warcraft.

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