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Itamedruids

Premades

The main reason i'm considering to move to crestfall is because the server i'm playing have a really bad pvp scene because of premades dodging other premades 24/7 resulting in a dead pvp scene, and the after a long time the server staff never made shit about it.
I played there for 6+ months and now i'm really disappointed with the server since it's the only reason i play vanilla

Is there something that Crestfall staff will do to prevent this ?
 

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As far as i (and most pvp community know) CF devs hate as much as we all do the "DODGING" in the pvp scene. While it has been repeated 100 times, i ll do it one more. Premades are not the problem making Kronos or any other server´s PVP scene awful, the problem is DODGING premades. It is as simple as adding desertor (for example) upon abandoning a qeue, this way Dodgemades wont be able to avoid stronger/better organised teams and either will qeue into them (letting pugs meet other pugs) or will drop qeue and eat a 15 min (make it 2 days) desertor.

If a server can keep its word and make the only realistic flaw in PVP vanilla system one less problem to worry about, then im pretty sure the pvp scene will be much healthier. Stronger premades will dominate standings by efficiently wining more games and faster (skill will matter and/or organisation) and shitmades will either have to play a lot or be doomed by what they are, shit. 

 

If it wasnt clear enough this would both fix the problem of dodgers making high amounts of honor by exploiting the system and meetings pugs (advantage for us good pvpers), and also will help PUG vs PUG happen more often since they wont be put against either the strong premade (cus of empty game opened by dodgemade) or against the dodgemade( even if they re shit, they prolly can win pugs).

 

I hope this sums it pretty well :) and hopefully as we all expect, CF devs will take action against these situations, since they hate it as much as we all do.

 

 

PD: with this said, i will own all of you as i did in every server, thanks.

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2 hours ago, Itamedruids said:

The main reason i'm considering to move to crestfall is because the server i'm playing have a really bad pvp scene because of premades dodging other premades 24/7 resulting in a dead pvp scene, and the after a long time the server staff never made shit about it.
I played there for 6+ months and now i'm really disappointed with the server since it's the only reason i play vanilla

Is there something that Crestfall staff will do to prevent this ?
 

A member of CF said the queue system will stay like it was on 1.12.1 which is Multiqueue enabled, you probably talk about Kronos which has Multiqueue disabled.

I find Multiqueue enabled better, im not playing in a premade and definitly will not with those cockheads.

I also left Kronos once they disabled Multiqueue. Because they listeened to people crying aka Og causing it. People just spammed the bugtracker with votes and then added custom changes to AV and now you got WSG only. What was the smart move again ? custom changes or listening to some premades not getting what they wanted? None of those 2 were smart....

But hey people paying for Twinstar Stars.

 

I dont wanna think about why or how things are better with multiqueue enabled, the first thing why i want is because other BGs are popping. I would not care about dodging and/or wintrading. I would assume dodging / wintrading would become less popular when people actually do it for a longer term, coz i feel like its dull and dumb and people dont fight much and get free honor for 2 months. Its not healthy, its pure work, who wants to work for so long and missing the actual gameplay ? Now you could say but afking and free honor is gameplay, then go ahead, you will just burn yourself out and quit or sell your account for your heroic act.

Edited by Brikot
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Honestly if the population is high then they should setup a custom queue system. Premades vs Premades and randoms vs randoms, there shouldn't be a reason for premades to just steamroll everything and get free honor. 

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Kronos is the most advanced adventure in the universe goyim, now pay for cross faction mounts so we can keep ruining the server. 

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8 hours ago, Kel said:

Honestly if the population is high then they should setup a custom queue system. Premades vs Premades and randoms vs randoms, there shouldn't be a reason for premades to just steamroll everything and get free honor. 

This was tried on Nost and all it lead to was people que'ing up for example in warsong as a 5 man party with another 5 people that weren't grouped and sniped the new battleground opened up by the 5 man by counting down in teamspeak. If you didn't allow partying at all without being put in a separate queue it could also lead to pug'ing actually being better honor if the que times become too long or one premade dominates the bracket and nobody feels it's worthwhile to que up versus them. This would likely lead to the premade PvP scene dying which for many is a big part of the game.

As has been previously suggested a blizzlike queue system with the addition of a deserter debuff for dropping queue is likely the easiest way to get a healthy bg scene going.

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No Game should ever favor any type of players. Which in previous pservers experiences is the case (Favoring premades).

 

I just want to point out,

1. Battlegrounds are not made for Premades.

2. Battlegrounds are made for everybody who wants to fight.

• 2.1 The point of fighting becomes pointless once you get stomped by a Premade.

• • 2.1.1 This point is tolerated if the amount of Premades are low.

3. Premades on Pservers are so common that you pretty much face them every time or every second time which is then a problem and HAS YET TO BE FUCKING CONSIDERED AS A PROBLEM.

 

When the Game is made for everyone and some game content can be played in a way that a group of people can take advantage of that content against other players then that is a problem and need to be fixed.

 

There needs to be a way to get into a Battleground. So Blizzard has made a Button that you can queue up for it. This is the main function. They added another Button to queue up with more people so you can play with the same people instead of waiting for the chance to be put in the same Battlegrounds. But then the Players can take huge advantage over the Group-Queue to simply do it whole day long and this purposely. Premading on a lower amount is not a problem, but to many doing this is a problem.

 

Because Battlegrounds should not give advantage for Group-queued players, taking the fun out of Single-queued players, makes it pointless to have Battlegrounds because it doesnt serve for everyone equaly but only for the group-queued players.

 

If now people say "EH LEARN TO PLAY AND STOP CRYING" then this makes no sense because what Premades do is attack with 3 vs 1. Also gear plays a role here too, if the gear difference is to big between 2 players then the skill level is lower for the one whos gear is worse. (Also not everyone players a frost mage and has warriors and rogues as enemy 24/7)

 

If people say "Join a premade yourself AND STOP CRYING" then this makes no sense either, because people should not need to be in a Premade to have fun in Battlegrounds, this could be the case if there was only the Group-queue, but as you know, the Game is not made for Premades only.

 

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7 minutes ago, Brikot said:

No Game should ever favor any type of players. Which in previous pservers experiences is the case (Favoring premades).

 

I just want to point out,

1. Battlegrounds are not made for Premades.

2. Battlegrounds are made for everybody who wants to fight.

• 2.1 The point of fighting becomes pointless once you get stomped by a Premade.

• • 2.1.1 This point is tolerated if the amount of Premades are low.

3. Premades on Pservers are so common that you pretty much face them every time or every second time which is then a problem and HAS YET TO BE FUCKING CONSIDERED AS A PROBLEM.

 

When the Game is made for everyone and some game content can be played in a way that a group of people can take advantage of that content against other players then that is a problem and need to be fixed.

 

There needs to be a way to get into a Battleground. So Blizzard has made a Button that you can queue up for it. This is the main function. They added another Button to queue up with more people so you can play with the same people instead of waiting for the chance to be put in the same Battlegrounds. But then the Players can take huge advantage over the Group-Queue to simply do it whole day long and this purposely. Premading on a lower amount is not a problem, but to many doing this is a problem.

 

Because Battlegrounds should not give advantage for Group-queued players, taking the fun out of Single-queued players, makes it pointless to have Battlegrounds because it doesnt serve for everyone equaly but only for the group-queued players.

 

If now people say "EH LEARN TO PLAY AND STOP CRYING" then this makes no sense because what Premades do is attack with 3 vs 1. Also gear plays a role here too, if the gear difference is to big between 2 players then the skill level is lower for the one whos gear is worse. (Also not everyone players a frost mage and has warriors and rogues as enemy 24/7)

 

If people say "Join a premade yourself AND STOP CRYING" then this makes no sense either, because people should not need to be in a Premade to have fun in Battlegrounds, this could be the case if there was only the Group-queue, but as you know, the Game is not made for Premades only.

 

I see, interesting. You want the game to be fair for everybody regardless of dedication in the form of creating premades and gearing your character. You don't think that there should be any advantage to being organized and efficient and instead aim for the casual player that ques up once a night to have the same chance to win?

Things like these are a very integral part of the classic experience and gamestyle and what you suggest sounds very much like some LFR version of battlegrounds whose only function is catering to the masses.

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@Adelinemdr

you missed the point. on pservers it became to common. in retail vanilla everything was new and with time it seems on retail premades became to big too that blizzard adjusted so many things until now.

 

the purpose of the battlegrounds becomes pointless with to many premades.

Battlegrounds in the first place was not made for just premades. you didnt understand this either.

This has nothing to do with "cater to the masses". this has nothing to do with any masses. Battlegrounds are supposed to be for everyone, i fucking said the group-queue is beeing taken advantage of from to many.

Edited by Brikot
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@Brikot  you got alot in common with the communists, thats for sure. Not thats its anything bad with that... its a "good" theory,just that it dosent work in practice

 
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25 minutes ago, mage21 said:

@Brikot  you got alot in common with the communists, thats for sure. Not thats its anything bad with that... its a "good" theory,just that it dosent work in practice


 

The only thing i was saying is what is wrong and why it is wrong. I think people get that im saying to remove premades or what ? I dont understand what cannot work in practice ? I am totally fine with Multiqueue enabled but not Multiqueue disabled.

Here i can say from common sense that a game should not end up benefiting a group of players OVER others. This is what happens when to many Premades are present in 5/8 Battlegrounds. 2 Premades in 8 Battlegrounds is just perfect. You can be a progamer and play solo / pug, this doesnt mean you cater to the masses... Thats a dumb statement. You can cater to the masses and making a game that has high skill cap and is fun. There will be a lot of food for progamers, because there will be all sorts of people playing you can kill. You can kill people who are roleplaying,, people who are farming in a group and what not, or even go to a capital city and farm there.

 

There is no point in making a game where on one end players benefiting of other players, while the casualites get no benefit and high frustration. You have to make sure to remove the frustration factor or reduce as much as possible. You can still have people benefiting but to make pugs still have motivation to play there needs to be something that reduces frusrtation, i think thats why on PvP Holidays, the losing team gets Bonus honor for losing.

 

I like to talk about this because i want to see those premading monkeys to get angry. I will do it whenever i get the chance. You have no idea how excited i am that CF is planning to leave the queue system how it is.

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Brikot, you re so stupid i ll avoid commenting, since you clearly have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER about pvp system or how it works. I stopped reading after your first sentence.

"DisaBLee PReeeMM nOt faIR!!!! ME sOlo Wolf Want HonoURRR Please DIsaBLEEE!!!!!! MMOrPG ALlowING PPl to gROUP Up!!!!!111!11!! I pLay 1 BG a WeeK , ;MaEK SYstem FIt for me!!!11!! "

This is what we read  when a new rat comes and tries to make the game fit for himself.

Please make us all a favour and try avoid commenting in topic where you dont give any useful insight, thanks.

 

 

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@Brikot Please spend some time researching on the consequences of premade v premade priority queue before you make a post like this.

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On 31.10.2016 at 11:52 PM, Curator said:

PD: with this said, i will own all of you as i did in every server, thanks.

Who are you?

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36 minutes ago, Thomaszine said:

Who are you?

I dont talk to newfags sorry.

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Read mine and Nuar's post from 

 

Edited by Ciar
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On 31.10.2016 at 11:52 PM, Curator said:

As far as i (and most pvp community know) CF devs hate as much as we all do the "DODGING" in the pvp scene. While it has been repeated 100 times, i ll do it one more. Premades are not the problem making Kronos or any other server´s PVP scene awful, the problem is DODGING premades. It is as simple as adding desertor (for example) upon abandoning a qeue, this way Dodgemades wont be able to avoid stronger/better organised teams and either will qeue into them (letting pugs meet other pugs) or will drop qeue and eat a 15 min (make it 2 days) desertor.

If a server can keep its word and make the only realistic flaw in PVP vanilla system one less problem to worry about, then im pretty sure the pvp scene will be much healthier. Stronger premades will dominate standings by efficiently wining more games and faster (skill will matter and/or organisation) and shitmades will either have to play a lot or be doomed by what they are, shit. 

 

If it wasnt clear enough this would both fix the problem of dodgers making high amounts of honor by exploiting the system and meetings pugs (advantage for us good pvpers), and also will help PUG vs PUG happen more often since they wont be put against either the strong premade (cus of empty game opened by dodgemade) or against the dodgemade( even if they re shit, they prolly can win pugs).

 

I hope this sums it pretty well :) and hopefully as we all expect, CF devs will take action against these situations, since they hate it as much as we all do.

 

 

PD: with this said, i will own all of you as i did in every server, thanks.

Don't know about that last sentence but this is pretty much how it should be. 

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Prem v prem que could yield more honor, if such a thing is considered. there must still be a reason to fight other prems.. More honor per kill/cap or sth :)

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Mindless honor farming by people who don't even like PvP and dodging is what ruins it every single time, it would be nice to see something done to alleviate this issue.

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I have 0 problem with premades. The thing i have problem with is the fact they dodge challange for easy honor farming. For me PvP should be about challange and meating the best, improving etc. Never seen fun in stomping pugs. I love a good fight with skilled people. But we are all different in that aspect.

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On 12/28/2016 at 3:10 PM, Marbo said:

Prem v prem que could yield more honor, if such a thing is considered. there must still be a reason to fight other prems.. More honor per kill/cap or sth :)

That's just begging for win trading.

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The Warhammer pserver has a system where some BGs are reserved to PUGs and it rotates every week. Nothing more than duos queueing is allowed into those.

Not saying this is a good solution but it acknowledges the fact that playing vs. premades as a PUG is no fun and that PUGs are not going away (and are actually the majority).

Hopefully the population can be enough that there is a premade vs. premade bracket (where server detects groups) and a PUG bracket for single queues or at most duo queue.

That might bring more people who honor farm into PuGs and the premades only for PVPers really interested in the dynamics and challenge of organized teams (Kinda like arena).

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Not sure where to put this in, there are several premade discussion threads.

So, i just want to share this.

The big amount of premades is a problem and not when only a few premads are playing. That means, a solo player that plays 10 times warsong, should not face 6-8 times premades, it actually makes the player quit pvping.

I assume the big amount of premades include many low ranks from 0-10. So my idea is dont allow rank 0-10 to team up with rank 11-14, because the low ranks dont need so much honor to rank up. The high ranks  require high standings, low ranks dont. I also think that premades actually fight each other by farming more than the other premade, while this makes the battlegrounds infested with premades cause they just dont stop playing and keep upping each other. So, how about allowing only high ranks to group-queue ? High ranks should be like 11-14 or 12-14 and not allow low ranks to queue with high ranks? Determining what is low rank and what is high rank is another discussion, just making examples.

A low rank can rank up easily. A low rank doesnt need to reach maximum rank up per week, except you are a very passionate player who plays for fun and as a side effect you are getting lots of honor...

 

So i dont know what would happen next, would people play so that their ranks are very similar to each others ? It may mean that premades dont play that much just so they can get into the high rank bracket together and premade together from Rank 11 towards Rank 14.

I think if some people push honor really hard, they would end up alone in the highest rank and doesnt have a premade, i think there, the high rank should use his brain and team up with low ranks and simply get into the high rank bracket together or just grind some honor alone until more get into the high rank bracket.

Both get fair increase of ranking, lows dont need 3 rank ups per week, so they get 1-2. High ranks dont need to be afraid of low ranks taking their standings, getting their fair standings.

(Not current rank but highest reached rank)

Edited by Brikot
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